Business of Esports - 232. EA FIFA Divorce, 100 Thieves Project X, Apex vs PUBG Earnings, Hulu Game Pass, Free Boost Mobile, Saudi Arabia Nintendo, Luxury Gaming Suites, Thermaltake Porsche Chair, Hidden Stadia, VR Advances

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Paul Dawalibi:

From the keyboard to the boardroom, this is the

Paul Dawalibi:

business of esports.

Paul Dawalibi:

The worlds of gaming and esports are evolving every day faster

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than ever before. With YouTube's living data, you can probe into

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the real thoughts and behaviors of esports fans and gamers

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holder, you should be talking with YouGov. They're partners

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with the biggest names in esports and the biggest brands

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day, check out youtube.com/bo E and schedule a call with YouGov.

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Today on the keyboard to the border. This is the Business

Paul Dawalibi:

News Sports weekly news show slash post podcast. The web I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

joined today by my friends and co host The Honorable Judge

Paul Dawalibi:

Jimmy burrata Jeff the juice Cohen, Lindsey, the Boss Boss.

Paul Dawalibi:

For those of you who are new here, welcome. Welcome to the

Paul Dawalibi:

official podcast of esports. What we do is we cover the most

Paul Dawalibi:

pressing, gaming and esports news and topics of the week. But

Paul Dawalibi:

we look at all of it through a business and C suite lens we

Paul Dawalibi:

dissect, we analyze the business implications of everything

Paul Dawalibi:

happening in this industry. And best of all with the live show.

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We get to do it live with you guys. You get to participate,

Paul Dawalibi:

getting our faces, ask us questions, challenge us, we

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encourage it. I know so many of you lurk. We really appreciate

Paul Dawalibi:

you guys being here. No pressure, but it's a safe space.

Paul Dawalibi:

And it's so much more fun when everyone gets involved. How is

Paul Dawalibi:

everyone doing this week? Lindsey start with you.

Lindsay Poss:

I'm doing great. I lost my voice at the esports

Lindsay Poss:

insider conference. It's been so fun. I was there all day. So I

Lindsay Poss:

have a nice huge bowl of Chipotle sitting in front of me

Lindsay Poss:

for the street tonight.

Lindsay Poss:

It's been good though.

Jeff Cohen:

Coming in no voice eating Chipotle

Jeff Cohen:

How was the conference what we want to talk about are sounds

Jeff Cohen:

fun.

Paul Dawalibi:

I've never heard of this what's the conference

Paul Dawalibi:

was really

Lindsay Poss:

it's East esports insider hosted

Paul Dawalibi:

never heard of these guys.

Lindsay Poss:

You I'm gonna hold on I'm sweating.

Paul Dawalibi:

I mean, there's there's so many of these like

Paul Dawalibi:

third rates, conferences, hosted by third rate media outlets, so

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't it's hard to keep up with all the imitators. You

Paul Dawalibi:

know, there's just so many people starting strong this

Paul Dawalibi:

week.

Lindsay Poss:

I had a great time and I met a lot of really good

Lindsay Poss:

folks from there. So

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, your PSA Lindsay, Lindsay's comments

Paul Dawalibi:

aside, don't go to conferences. If we're not there. Just don't

Paul Dawalibi:

go. It's a waste of your money.

Lindsay Poss:

But I was there. So I don't know what you're

Lindsay Poss:

saying.

Paul Dawalibi:

Jimmy, Jeff, How're you guys doing?

Jeff Cohen:

Good. I like the new intro. A new a new intro. intro

Jeff Cohen:

was exciting. Because I'm used to tuning out kind of the old

Jeff Cohen:

intro and now. I was like, Oh, this is cool. new intro is true

Jeff Cohen:

about you. Gov. We love them and their data

Paul Dawalibi:

we do and our friends that you guys have been

Paul Dawalibi:

extremely, extremely great partners. And so yeah, it's fun,

Paul Dawalibi:

new little intro a little bit different messaging, but I try

Paul Dawalibi:

and touch on this every week, that sort of the actionable

Paul Dawalibi:

nature of, of the data. So yeah, it was interesting. Guys, let's

Paul Dawalibi:

start I have I have a whole bunch of stuff. This week, I

Paul Dawalibi:

will say the podcast episode that you guys have to look

Paul Dawalibi:

forward to this week is something entirely different. I

Paul Dawalibi:

mentioned it, I teased it Jimmy teased it a few weeks ago, we

Paul Dawalibi:

were at Krypto. Bahamas, we did a panel on gaming and web three.

Paul Dawalibi:

And that was an invite only conference where the cost 1000s

Paul Dawalibi:

and 1000s of dollars to go to. And the best part of being a

Paul Dawalibi:

business of esports fan, unlike any of the other, you know

Paul Dawalibi:

crappy media outlets out there is you get this kind of top tier

Paul Dawalibi:

content for free. And we're gonna put out our entire panel,

Paul Dawalibi:

the entire one hour panel out as the podcast episode this week.

Paul Dawalibi:

So some great guests on that panel, some great conversation

Paul Dawalibi:

around gaming and web three. I really, really would love

Paul Dawalibi:

everyone's feedback on that. If you love it, by the way,

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely go subscribe to meta business because you find so

Paul Dawalibi:

much more of that kind of conversation on meta business,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is our sister podcast, but that's what you have looked to

Paul Dawalibi:

look forward to on the podcast this week. It's a one hour panel

Paul Dawalibi:

from Krypto Bahamas, talking about the intersection of gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

and web three. So definitely that Sligo check that out when

Paul Dawalibi:

it drops on Friday. All right guys, let's let's start with

Paul Dawalibi:

some some gaming news here, which is what we do. And this is

Paul Dawalibi:

FIFA. It's a story we followed a little bit but it now you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

it's now sort of a done deal it sounds like or it seems like and

Paul Dawalibi:

there's two stories related to it or tied to it. So let me

Paul Dawalibi:

bring up the first one here. And the headline here is FIFA says

Paul Dawalibi:

its games will still be the best in quotes without EA. So FIFA

Paul Dawalibi:

supposedly has already got multiple games in the works and

Paul Dawalibi:

plans to compete directly with EA starting in 2024. So

Paul Dawalibi:

following EAS announcement, it says that it would be dropping

Paul Dawalibi:

the FIFA name from its football series in favor of EA Sports FC

Paul Dawalibi:

branding, which we discussed on this live show. FIFA itself says

Paul Dawalibi:

it's already working on multiple new games, some of which are due

Paul Dawalibi:

to launch this year. Let me just give you the quote from the FIFA

Paul Dawalibi:

president he says I can assure you that the only authentic real

Paul Dawalibi:

game that has the FIFA name will be the best one available for

Paul Dawalibi:

gamers and football fans. FIFA president Gianni Infantino says

Paul Dawalibi:

in a press release I mean that's how I feel about esports

Paul Dawalibi:

business channels also. But I'm curious what you guys think of

Paul Dawalibi:

of the FIFA basically now saying we don't need you EA, we're

Paul Dawalibi:

going to make our own games. Anyone anyone excited about FIFA

Paul Dawalibi:

has a FIFA made games. Jeff?

Jeff Cohen:

I think this is super delusional. I mean, I'd be

Jeff Cohen:

I'd be very curious to see who you're actually going to get to

Jeff Cohen:

to make this because obviously FIFA is not you know, making it

Jeff Cohen:

themselves. The the one you know studio that maybe could do it

Jeff Cohen:

and has like the the development chops would be to k given their

Jeff Cohen:

success and other sports games. I really hope they don't do that

Jeff Cohen:

as someone who owns take to stock I just think EA has such

Jeff Cohen:

an advantage and such a network effect with Ultimate Team every

Jeff Cohen:

year that you know, I remember when I was an analyst a few

Jeff Cohen:

years back there was a big hubbub when Cristiano Ronaldo

Jeff Cohen:

signed an exclusive deal with Pro Evolution Soccer, which was

Jeff Cohen:

made by Konami. And that game was actually free to play and

Jeff Cohen:

people, you know, the investors were like, Wait, like, they lost

Jeff Cohen:

Ronaldo? Like, what does this mean? You know, are people going

Jeff Cohen:

to go to art? He has a lot of fans clearly. Are they going to

Jeff Cohen:

go play Pro Evolution Soccer? And the answer was like

Jeff Cohen:

resoundingly No, I mean, the gay I think, pro FIFA is like 10

Jeff Cohen:

times, literally 10 times the size of Pro Evolution, soccer in

Jeff Cohen:

terms of the player base and probably, you know, 100 times

Jeff Cohen:

that literally in revenue. So I I don't think that there's any

Jeff Cohen:

risk here. I think anyone who tries to compete with FIFA will

Jeff Cohen:

probably just be spending a few 100 million dollars to get 5%

Jeff Cohen:

market share. Same way I feel about EA continuing to try to

Jeff Cohen:

compete against 2k in basketball. That war is over.

Jeff Cohen:

It's been it's been one.

Paul Dawalibi:

So are you saying that EAS game? The EA Sports FC?

Paul Dawalibi:

Regardless of how good the game is, is going to struggle to

Paul Dawalibi:

compete against FIFA. FIFA,

Jeff Cohen:

the exact sorry maybe I misspoke. Exact

Jeff Cohen:

opposite. Okay, so using game without FIFA, the FIFA license

Jeff Cohen:

means almost nothing. Because I think this is what people get

Jeff Cohen:

confused about is like when when you're talking about losing the

Jeff Cohen:

FIFA license. All that means is the name on the front of the

Jeff Cohen:

box. They'll still have all the players names, they'll still

Jeff Cohen:

have all the teams. They will lose the World Cup Mode, which

Jeff Cohen:

is notable, but they will have it for this World Cup. And my

Jeff Cohen:

guess is by the next World Cup, FIFA will come slinking back to

Jeff Cohen:

EA and we'll take a lower licensing deal. So

Paul Dawalibi:

you can't there's no chance FIFA puts out a great

Paul Dawalibi:

game. Zero. Does anyone disagree? Jimmy Lindsey, anyone

Paul Dawalibi:

in chat.

Lindsay Poss:

They certainly have the resources to put out a

Lindsay Poss:

great game, ie the money, whether they choose the right

Lindsay Poss:

players in the right studio to do so is remains another

Lindsay Poss:

question and I find it extremely hard to believe that they have

Lindsay Poss:

something that's going to be ready to go within this year.

Lindsay Poss:

And that they saw this coming and that there's some grand plan

Lindsay Poss:

to release an awesome game.

Jimmy Baratta:

Go ahead, Jimmy. You know, we talked about it

Jimmy Baratta:

with Blockchain gaming, we talked about it with every

Jimmy Baratta:

gaming studio and acquisition. Making a game is the hard part.

Jimmy Baratta:

The licensing the naming, I feel like that should be the easy

Jimmy Baratta:

part here. So I just when I saw the fight in the split, I just

Jimmy Baratta:

didn't really know what FIFA had to offer. I think the World Cup

Jimmy Baratta:

Mode is super compelling. And it's a great argument, Jeff,

Jimmy Baratta:

because me I'm not a big FIFA fan but I'm a big NBA 2k fan,

Jimmy Baratta:

and I get that much more into it during playoffs because they

Jimmy Baratta:

have playoff modes and you can play the matchups. I think

Jimmy Baratta:

that's even more involved it with soccer and tournaments, and

Jimmy Baratta:

events like that. But I would, if you've played this game every

Jimmy Baratta:

year, if you've purchased it every year for 510 plus years,

Jimmy Baratta:

as a lot of these diehard fans do, I think you'd probably stick

Jimmy Baratta:

with the game mechanics and the menus and the stuff that you

Jimmy Baratta:

know and love before you jump ship. Having said that, I do

Jimmy Baratta:

think it's smarter FIFA to try and branch out. I remember when

Jimmy Baratta:

NBA Live was a thing that was competitive and good for 2k. And

Jimmy Baratta:

I think I thought I thought it made both franchises better, but

Jimmy Baratta:

there was a clear winner and a clear loser. So I don't know how

Jimmy Baratta:

long FIFA can really keep up with with EA. And how many? How,

Jimmy Baratta:

how much they're going to get right the first trial without

Jimmy Baratta:

them

Paul Dawalibi:

is no one's surprised that they said the

Paul Dawalibi:

game is going to be ready next year. Does anyone like tinfoil

Paul Dawalibi:

hats say maybe FIFA was planning this all along and they had a

Paul Dawalibi:

game in development? Let me just get thinking about that. And let

Paul Dawalibi:

me catch up on these. One he says Sorry, I'm late to the

Paul Dawalibi:

party when he welcome but always, always, always welcome

Paul Dawalibi:

regardless of the time. Hello, Lindsey. One he says Lindsay's

Paul Dawalibi:

mukbang is the best is the bonus included with this episode.

Paul Dawalibi:

Antonio says not having the FIFA brands won't affect EA EA is the

Paul Dawalibi:

standard in sports games, in my opinion. I mean, this it's an

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting conversation, right? Because where's the loyalty is

Paul Dawalibi:

the loyalty to the game or to the brand? And you know, I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know if EA is games are so good that people are like just deadly

Paul Dawalibi:

loyal to it. Or if if they just want to play something that has

Paul Dawalibi:

the players that they like in it. Chris says PS slash winning

Paul Dawalibi:

11 was always the better game engine but never won without the

Paul Dawalibi:

FIFA licensing. Next, you're gonna say 100 thieves can make a

Paul Dawalibi:

good video game. Chris, you're, you're giving me the perfect

Paul Dawalibi:

segue to our next topic. So just hang on to bed for a second. But

Paul Dawalibi:

when he says I agree with Christopher I mean, what chat

Paul Dawalibi:

saying here is what I'm hearing is, although Antonio disagrees,

Paul Dawalibi:

but at least Chris and Lonnie think that this this game like

Paul Dawalibi:

the FIFA branding is what's more important. And so if we look at

Paul Dawalibi:

sales data, two years from now, the FIFA game should outsell the

Paul Dawalibi:

EA soccer game. Does anyone does anyone think that may happen?

Lindsay Poss:

Yes, if they put out a half decent game, I think

Lindsay Poss:

the branding is incredibly important. And I think it

Lindsay Poss:

completely hinges on their game development and who they choose

Lindsay Poss:

and I don't necessarily have faith that they're going to make

Lindsay Poss:

the right decision in that regard.

Jeff Cohen:

So one thing I'm interested to understand a

Jeff Cohen:

little bit more as FIFA is like other licensing strategy because

Jeff Cohen:

isn't FIFA just the international competition? So

Jeff Cohen:

like, will this game not have because the one of the things

Jeff Cohen:

that EA is always stressed they their FIFA licensing they have

Jeff Cohen:

like 350 licenses so they licensed the Premier League they

Jeff Cohen:

let you know man, you Man City they license La Liga they

Jeff Cohen:

license, you know, all these different leagues like FIFA?

Jeff Cohen:

Will they just have a World Cup Mode, which in and of itself

Jeff Cohen:

could have value? You know, people really do like playing

Jeff Cohen:

with Spain, Portugal and all these teams, but like, will they

Jeff Cohen:

even will now players go to them and try to get their own deal.

Jeff Cohen:

Like if I'm Cristiano Ronaldo, do I go and say, Well, you can't

Jeff Cohen:

put me in that game, unless you give me a cut. So like, I think

Jeff Cohen:

they're gonna find they have a much bigger challenge on their

Jeff Cohen:

hands, in addition to just actually building the game,

Jeff Cohen:

which, you know, keep in mind EA has been doing for 30 years,

Jeff Cohen:

that's probably expected to motive, you know, $10 billion

Jeff Cohen:

dollars developing over, you know, over the period of 20

Jeff Cohen:

years. Like that's a lot of, you know, r&d debt to make up.

Paul Dawalibi:

Can I just throw something out there? of all,

Paul Dawalibi:

like, I'm the first guy to say making a great game is hard. But

Paul Dawalibi:

why is making a soccer game so hard, right? Like the physics

Paul Dawalibi:

are pretty simple. The game is the game, right? Like, you don't

Paul Dawalibi:

need to some new twist in like new twist on soccer. It's not

Paul Dawalibi:

like you need to invent game mechanics or storyline or

Paul Dawalibi:

anything to draw players in. Right? Like, if, if anything,

Paul Dawalibi:

this is the easiest kind of game to make possible. So yeah, you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, I'm always in the camp of making good games is hard. But

Paul Dawalibi:

here you the bars sort of low, right? I mean, it's like so it's

Paul Dawalibi:

a relatively slow paced sport. It's relatively easy to model,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something there. But I

Paul Dawalibi:

feel like FIFA three I feel like FIFA has a high chance of

Paul Dawalibi:

putting something very competitive out. And EA maybe

Paul Dawalibi:

miss played their hand on this one maybe. And let me just give

Paul Dawalibi:

the backup for that. And then I'll read some of the comments

Paul Dawalibi:

here. But some of the backup is there was this article that came

Paul Dawalibi:

out. I don't necessarily want to cover the substance of this but

Paul Dawalibi:

it was like EA the next day put out this saying, Hey, we have

Paul Dawalibi:

unannounced Games and major IP for 2023. So like they're that,

Paul Dawalibi:

that they've got new stuff coming and that we haven't

Paul Dawalibi:

publicly disclosed it yet. Does anyone think this is in any way

Paul Dawalibi:

connected? Right? Like they want to change the narrative? We're

Paul Dawalibi:

still making games, we're still you know, that maybe EA is

Paul Dawalibi:

worried? Does anyone buy that? Or am I? Am I reading too much

Paul Dawalibi:

into this? Jimmy?

Jimmy Baratta:

I think you might be reading into it. I mean, FIFA

Jimmy Baratta:

is one game out of a ton of great games that EA puts out.

Jimmy Baratta:

I'm hoping that major IP is the new Dragon Age, because that's

Jimmy Baratta:

what I'm looking for, personally, but who knows? Maybe

Jimmy Baratta:

it could be something completely different in a new franchise.

Jimmy Baratta:

Sure, sure. They probably needed some good press in the cycle,

Jimmy Baratta:

but it's not like you come up with if they're coming out with

Jimmy Baratta:

a game in 2023. It's been in development for, you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

years, I would think so I don't think this is just like, hey,

Jimmy Baratta:

here's my more attractive new you know, girlfriend or

Jimmy Baratta:

whatever. This is just something that they needed to put out but

Jimmy Baratta:

something that they were working on independent of whatever

Jimmy Baratta:

happened with EA, they're probably completely blind of

Jimmy Baratta:

each other to I would think that that whatever games being played

Jimmy Baratta:

out could care less about how well FIFA does you know, that's

Jimmy Baratta:

how EA operates. The FIFA team doesn't care how well the NBA

Jimmy Baratta:

team does. So

Paul Dawalibi:

someone at some level cares. Let me just read

Paul Dawalibi:

read some of these comments here. When he says I'm not sure

Paul Dawalibi:

FIFA is more important than gameplay and stuff. But I think

Paul Dawalibi:

if FIFA releases the game that can be serious competition that

Paul Dawalibi:

I agree with. Matt says, Hey, everybody, FIFA will definitely

Paul Dawalibi:

go to another developer like take two or Capcom, maybe or

Paul Dawalibi:

Playstation. I mean, it sounds like they've already decided and

Paul Dawalibi:

it just hasn't been announced. Right? Does anyone?

Jeff Cohen:

So I agree. I do agree that it does sound like

Jeff Cohen:

that. But like FIFA is going to be it's a risky, risky move for

Jeff Cohen:

FIFA, right? Because Are we really sure that there's a

Jeff Cohen:

developer out there that's gonna say, hey, you know what I really

Jeff Cohen:

want to do spend $300 million to go after literally the most

Jeff Cohen:

probably rock solid, franchised and all game? Like, why would

Jeff Cohen:

why would someone do that? And if you're FIFA, you're giving up

Jeff Cohen:

you're probably gonna have to chip in for development costs.

Jeff Cohen:

And you're giving up what was? I mean, they were literally

Jeff Cohen:

getting paid like $150 million a year by EA of like, pure profit.

Jeff Cohen:

Like it just doesn't, I don't it seems like what's cool about

Jeff Cohen:

this is that someone's gonna be right in some of them be wrong,

Jeff Cohen:

either EA is gonna lose their golden goose and it's gonna be

Jeff Cohen:

like a massive blunder by Andrew Wilson, like 100% fireable

Jeff Cohen:

offense if they lose, you know, the luster of this franchise, or

Jeff Cohen:

FIFA made a horrible, horrible decision, and it's gonna come

Jeff Cohen:

slinking back to EA and to you like the next World Cup cycle,

Jeff Cohen:

which is what I think will happen, and EA will probably

Jeff Cohen:

tell them Yeah, well, we'll take it back. But like, you're gonna

Jeff Cohen:

basically we're gonna pay you like 20% of what we were paying

Jeff Cohen:

you previously. So like, someone is going to make someone who's

Jeff Cohen:

completely right in someone's completely wrong here. Sort of

Jeff Cohen:

binary

Paul Dawalibi:

who's who buys FIFA though, right? It's got to

Paul Dawalibi:

be like, I suspect it's pretty seasonal. Right? A lot of it is

Paul Dawalibi:

Christmas gifts, things like that. And a lot of its parents

Paul Dawalibi:

buying it for their kids. I have a funny feeling the brand

Paul Dawalibi:

carries more weight here than we're giving it credit. Right?

Paul Dawalibi:

It's still a $60 box game, that the parents you know, I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know what percentage is but my guess is it's at least 25 30% At

Paul Dawalibi:

least. That will buy just because it's you know, hey, I

Paul Dawalibi:

know my kid plays FIFA I'm gonna buy them the next FIFA let me

Paul Dawalibi:

just get caught up here guys. I'm so behind. Chris says even

Paul Dawalibi:

the Techmo bowl games sold better when it had the real

Paul Dawalibi:

players in real league back in the day. And Chris, I think your

Paul Dawalibi:

points the right one here if EA can't get the player name

Paul Dawalibi:

somehow. Or the teams. I mean, no one's gonna play that game.

Paul Dawalibi:

No one right. Like, you're just not going to you. That's why

Paul Dawalibi:

people play the game. I think when g Lee says they lost so

Paul Dawalibi:

much IP in sports game mechanics. It's the long

Paul Dawalibi:

history. EA P S, by the way is Pro Evolution Soccer. For those

Paul Dawalibi:

who don't recognize this, it was it was Konami's, I guess soccer

Paul Dawalibi:

game. There's a long history AAPs has that it's going to be

Paul Dawalibi:

hard to compete with FIFA will all be about execution. And if

Paul Dawalibi:

they can, but it sounds like there's not many studios with

Paul Dawalibi:

the chops to do it. So likelihood of failure is high to

Paul Dawalibi:

your comment last week there's a reason Football Manager

Paul Dawalibi:

succeeded over champ manager even after losing the brand

Paul Dawalibi:

champ manager the manager piece though feels like it's not the

Paul Dawalibi:

same because the names don't matter as much maybe you're

Paul Dawalibi:

right the FIFA I mean everyone agrees here I think FIFA is

Paul Dawalibi:

going to live or die by the execution of this game. But does

Paul Dawalibi:

anyone think that that bar is super high? So high that they

Paul Dawalibi:

can't find the studio to wins point here with the chops to do

Paul Dawalibi:

it, I'm quoting directly. There's a lot of studios From a

Paul Dawalibi:

lot of studios,

Jimmy Baratta:

a lot of studios, again, they're going to put out

Jimmy Baratta:

a decent game. It's just mechanically it's not going to

Jimmy Baratta:

feel like what this loyal fan base is used to in terms of how

Jimmy Baratta:

responsive the players are how how the physics of the game or

Jimmy Baratta:

with a slide tackling and the ball trajectory, it's going to

Jimmy Baratta:

feel like a different games, some people are gonna love it,

Jimmy Baratta:

some people are gonna want to play the mechanics that they're

Jimmy Baratta:

familiar with. It's a it's a similar argument whenever Madden

Jimmy Baratta:

or any of these games update their engines, right, and a lot

Jimmy Baratta:

of people hate it, but they don't have any other option. The

Jimmy Baratta:

only differences now there's going to be a competitor and

Jimmy Baratta:

they'll be able to choose. And like Jeff said, One have some of

Jimmy Baratta:

us here are going to be wrong, some of us are going to be

Jimmy Baratta:

right. And I don't know if there's a way to predict it

Jimmy Baratta:

honestly,

Paul Dawalibi:

like I can't speak to FIFA, but I did play a

Paul Dawalibi:

lot of the NHL games, and it was like it for many years, it felt

Paul Dawalibi:

like the only improvement year over a year was like they

Paul Dawalibi:

changed the music in the intro. And the player faces were a

Paul Dawalibi:

little bit more realistic, right, it looked more like the

Paul Dawalibi:

actual player. And that was pretty much it. And for the most

Paul Dawalibi:

part, the game played exactly the same. I suspect soccer's

Paul Dawalibi:

pretty much the same way and that most of the physics in the

Paul Dawalibi:

engines have been figured out. Matt says making a soccer game

Paul Dawalibi:

is hard because devs won't stop tinkering with them. It's the

Paul Dawalibi:

same problem with 2k, Madden NHL etc. Yeah, I don't think that

Paul Dawalibi:

stops FIFA from making good game though. Mechanics are pretty

Paul Dawalibi:

hard. They have tricks, attributes, tactics, I guess

Paul Dawalibi:

Football Manager, like a full spreadsheet simulator with

Paul Dawalibi:

metrics they hold. Assume EA has that data already or similar?

Paul Dawalibi:

True, but I am assuming data like that would still belong to

Paul Dawalibi:

FIFA? I don't know if you guys like player actual, like actual

Paul Dawalibi:

player data? I don't think so. You think that's third party

Paul Dawalibi:

collected? Yeah. Or no,

Jeff Cohen:

I think EA comes up with the player data. Okay.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, I understand. They're gonna have all the teams and all

Jeff Cohen:

the players, they just won't have the name FIFA and they may

Jeff Cohen:

not have, they might not be able to say this is the World Cup,

Jeff Cohen:

they actually may even have the international teams, that's the

Jeff Cohen:

only thing where I'm on the fence for because a lot of

Jeff Cohen:

people do love playing with the international teams. And if you

Jeff Cohen:

can't play with those teams, I could see that being

Jeff Cohen:

problematic. But if it's if it's the only changes, it doesn't

Jeff Cohen:

say, this is the FIFA World Cup, it just says you're playing with

Jeff Cohen:

Spain versus Italy, like players names are. So if that's the

Jeff Cohen:

case, then I definitely am like there's no effect. Outside of

Jeff Cohen:

maybe some people's parents buying them the wrong game. I

Jeff Cohen:

think that's actually a fairly valid point. Because I think

Jeff Cohen:

people just have that name in mind. Yeah, and I wouldn't be

Jeff Cohen:

too there's Yeah, I'm sure did a lot of lot of research for

Jeff Cohen:

making

Jimmy Baratta:

the find another way. I think, Jeff, also to

Jimmy Baratta:

market those matches international or whatnot, that's

Jimmy Baratta:

apart from they'll just come up with new creative titles. But to

Jimmy Baratta:

me, the big issue is licensing, right like, and also

Jimmy Baratta:

proprietary. Just ownership of these digital rights, these

Jimmy Baratta:

digital creations, the ratings of the players, the dance

Jimmy Baratta:

celebrations that they record in studio that take hours to do for

Jimmy Baratta:

these teams. I'm not sure how the licensing goes with regard

Jimmy Baratta:

to like, putting the players names on the jerseys, which I

Jimmy Baratta:

think is different than the player data you guys were

Jimmy Baratta:

talking about. So you know, all these technicalities, I think,

Jimmy Baratta:

depending on where who they pay for those rights, but but again,

Jimmy Baratta:

EA is way ahead because they have the celebrations, they have

Jimmy Baratta:

the engine already, they have rankings for these players that

Jimmy Baratta:

they update every year for 1000s of people on roster. Not to say

Jimmy Baratta:

it can't be done, but it's a very large effort, especially if

Jimmy Baratta:

you're talking to a new studio to create a new game and that is

Jimmy Baratta:

to do it from scratch.

Paul Dawalibi:

Let me just get get caught up here guys. Han

Paul Dawalibi:

says Konami would be a decent substitute. Yeah, I mean, people

Paul Dawalibi:

have mentioned PDS here like multiple times. Konami could

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely do it and has the chops to do it. They they have

Paul Dawalibi:

the experience, assuming the people who develop PCs are

Paul Dawalibi:

still, you know, still around. And Tony says I'd be interested

Paul Dawalibi:

in what Konami could do everyone. I think Konami is

Paul Dawalibi:

maybe one of the more obvious ones. Adam says hello, everyone

Paul Dawalibi:

joining late, but Happy to be here. Adam. Welcome. Chris says

Paul Dawalibi:

tinfoil hat. There you go. tinfoil hat for Chris fief was

Paul Dawalibi:

making a mobile game for that international audience. We don't

Paul Dawalibi:

even care about soccer. I mean, that is an interesting one who

Paul Dawalibi:

thinks this may be great. Only. Lindsey?

Lindsay Poss:

Oh, I mean, that's going to be so huge with the

Lindsay Poss:

South American audiences. I just I think this is a great theory.

Lindsay Poss:

I think that FIFA could do a lot with a mobile game. I don't know

Lindsay Poss:

that it necessarily directly competes with any console game

Lindsay Poss:

and EAS might still see some traction in terms of its console

Lindsay Poss:

sales for the people that are really used to playing and

Lindsay Poss:

streaming and watching streamers, whatever. But I think

Lindsay Poss:

that the mobile could certainly like there's a lot of markets

Lindsay Poss:

where I could see a mobile FIFA game being super successful. So

Lindsay Poss:

this is this is a great theory I'm I would, I would be pumped

Lindsay Poss:

to see that

Jeff Cohen:

mobile makes sense. Like there is a FIFA mobile

Jeff Cohen:

game? Yeah, probably I'm sure they'll rebrand it as well like

Jeff Cohen:

is that I don't know if it ever was really that successful. I

Jeff Cohen:

had never caught on as much probably just bad execution

Jeff Cohen:

though, so that that could be an interesting opening certainly

Jeff Cohen:

would be a lot easier to develop. So maybe that's maybe

Jeff Cohen:

that's their their kind of first foray.

Paul Dawalibi:

Matt says What about just the team's not the

Paul Dawalibi:

players? That was the case with the old college football games,

Paul Dawalibi:

man, I think Jeff touched on that, that, you know, especially

Paul Dawalibi:

like country international stuff, probably no issue. Johan

Paul Dawalibi:

says, I wonder what effect the FIFA partnership will have on

Paul Dawalibi:

Konami's PS in terms of new market share, that should give

Paul Dawalibi:

us the value of FIFA as partnership. And I think right

Paul Dawalibi:

now, that's hard to judge. Um, I mean, because Johan you think

Paul Dawalibi:

it'll, it'll steal market share and will? Like, what's the like,

Paul Dawalibi:

is the thinking that assuming FIFA is not doing it with

Paul Dawalibi:

Konami, right, which we don't know, it could be that the

Paul Dawalibi:

bigger loser is PS or the bigger loser, is ea, ea, football FC,

Paul Dawalibi:

whatever they're calling it? Right? Because when was the last

Paul Dawalibi:

installment of PS?

Jeff Cohen:

I think they made one might be a yearly title. And

Jeff Cohen:

then the last one was Tara apparently was like,

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, they just wanted one more believe it.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, they did one last year. So I mean, is the assumption here,

Paul Dawalibi:

Johan that you think p s will be a bigger loser in terms of

Paul Dawalibi:

market share, versus an EA that will cannibalize? I mean, if

Paul Dawalibi:

Konami smart, this is the they should be the partner? Right?

Paul Dawalibi:

Because if if they're not potentially they're the bigger

Paul Dawalibi:

loser than EA is. Right? Because they felt that there Yeah, yeah.

Paul Dawalibi:

Han says FIFA feeds the Player Rating seasons by seasons,

Paul Dawalibi:

diehard club fans will be rooting for their Player Rating

Paul Dawalibi:

going up. Yeah. That answers the question on player ratings.

Paul Dawalibi:

Chris says fun fact when PS lost the licensing, EA poached a lot

Paul Dawalibi:

of the Konami designers, same thing can happen the other way.

Paul Dawalibi:

Konami definitely has a lot to gain. I just looked at the

Paul Dawalibi:

Metacritic score for last year's installment is 25 out of 100. So

Paul Dawalibi:

not not a very good game, but maybe slapping FIFA branding on

Paul Dawalibi:

top of it fixes it. So guys, we spend a lot of time on this. I

Paul Dawalibi:

know it's interesting. We'll see how it plays out. You know, is

Paul Dawalibi:

it is it a brand new developer that FIFA taps is it Konami? Is

Paul Dawalibi:

it someone else? Is it mobile? Is it the console? Right? Maybe

Jeff Cohen:

they'll start their own? It seems to be like the new

Jeff Cohen:

thing,

Paul Dawalibi:

the new thing? Well, that's the perfect segue,

Paul Dawalibi:

I think to our next story here, which is 100 Thieves 100 Thieves

Paul Dawalibi:

in the markets to build their own game. So the headline here

Paul Dawalibi:

100 Thieves developing video game with pros and streamers.

Paul Dawalibi:

100, thieves announced the development of its own video

Paul Dawalibi:

game Project X, which will be a collaborative effort with pros

Paul Dawalibi:

and streamers. CEO Matthew NadeShot. Haag and 100 Thieves

Paul Dawalibi:

President John Robinson revealed the orbs next big initiative on

Paul Dawalibi:

May 18, adding another branch to its already ambitious list of

Paul Dawalibi:

business verticals, concrete details of the tale are slim.

Paul Dawalibi:

But the 100 Thieves execs are planning to shake up how game

Paul Dawalibi:

development looks by actively incorporating input from

Paul Dawalibi:

streamers pros, and community members. Guys, where have we

Paul Dawalibi:

heard this before? This? I mean, look, I always said these guys

Paul Dawalibi:

are mostly unoriginal, mostly pretty bad business people.

Paul Dawalibi:

These are mostly mismanaged companies. But come on. Were

Paul Dawalibi:

like ripping off the dock completely here knows no one

Paul Dawalibi:

bothered by this.

Jeff Cohen:

Jeff Yeah, I'm not bothered by this. If anything, I

Jeff Cohen:

would say I thought you were gonna say ripping off the

Jeff Cohen:

business of esports. Because I have to give you know you and

Jeff Cohen:

really actually William credit. I remember many, many podcasts

Jeff Cohen:

ago, like two years ago, you guys were talking about this

Jeff Cohen:

with several esports orgs whether it made sense to

Jeff Cohen:

eventually be vertically integrated and have you know,

Jeff Cohen:

esports orcs actually create their own game? And at the time,

Jeff Cohen:

I thought it was ridiculous. Turns out I was wrong. So yeah,

Jeff Cohen:

kudos. Do you guys call on that? In terms of this? You know, I'm

Jeff Cohen:

not bullish on this. But the one thing I guess I would maybe play

Jeff Cohen:

devil's advocate with myself a little bit is that right now

Jeff Cohen:

there's a war for talent going on in terms of developers and

Jeff Cohen:

the big video game companies are not really the greatest place to

Jeff Cohen:

work, right? There's a lot of unrest, Activision, Ubisoft, EA,

Jeff Cohen:

really everywhere. So maybe a big brand like 100 thieves that

Jeff Cohen:

people really like and consumers identify gamers identify with.

Jeff Cohen:

Maybe they have some sort of recruiting advantage where they

Jeff Cohen:

can actually hire talent because of that. Um, I could see that

Jeff Cohen:

potentially being something on a pitch deck that would maybe get

Jeff Cohen:

investors excited. In practice, I think you hit the nail on the

Jeff Cohen:

head that these guys aren't that great of operator, when we saw

Jeff Cohen:

with FaZe Clan, like just the disaster that they've been in

Jeff Cohen:

their brief period of time, you know, trying to get into the

Jeff Cohen:

public markets, just overspending not executing. So,

Jeff Cohen:

like, do I have confidence that an esports. org is going to be

Jeff Cohen:

able to deal with the video game and hire talent and actually hit

Jeff Cohen:

deadlines and not overspend on costs? No, I really don't. Yeah,

Jeff Cohen:

those are those are sort of my, my take.

Paul Dawalibi:

Jimmy Lindsey, and if you guys have have a

Paul Dawalibi:

different take on this, I just want to I feel bad. I want to

Paul Dawalibi:

get a couple of comments on the last topic here. When's his Lego

Paul Dawalibi:

FIFA? That would be that would be interesting. Actually, I

Paul Dawalibi:

think that would do super well, because that's totally like

Paul Dawalibi:

onpoint. In terms of the market there. Yan says I think that

Paul Dawalibi:

remains to be seen. If a FIFA partnership provides P S, with a

Paul Dawalibi:

big new surge in market share, then FIFA might be worth 300

Paul Dawalibi:

million they want an EA would have made a blunder. It does not

Paul Dawalibi:

provide them with significant new market share. EA might have

Paul Dawalibi:

made a good decision. It's hard to judge that at this time,

Paul Dawalibi:

since it's so unprecedented for soccer games, as EA had this

Paul Dawalibi:

exclusive since the genres pioneer basically. Yeah, I mean,

Paul Dawalibi:

Johan, we I agree, we won't know until we see the actual game,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? It's kind of hard to just predict based on, we just don't

Paul Dawalibi:

have enough information, who is the developer? And what does the

Paul Dawalibi:

game look like? Until we have that card that says a Super

Paul Dawalibi:

Smash game with major influencers and gamers from the

Paul Dawalibi:

industry would be cool. And it's not just super smash. Chris

Paul Dawalibi:

says, At what point do investors start to question what's being

Paul Dawalibi:

done with their money for a sports team? I mean, clearly, no

Paul Dawalibi:

one's asking questions here, Chris. Like, I'm pretty sure

Paul Dawalibi:

that's obvious. No one has ever really asked questions with most

Paul Dawalibi:

of these esports teams. Can I just throw a hot take out there,

Paul Dawalibi:

guys? And let me let me I'm curious what you guys think? Is

Paul Dawalibi:

this basically an admission that esports teams, as a business and

Paul Dawalibi:

a business model have failed? Right. But we can we can sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

soundly say now that esports teams cannot be successful as

Paul Dawalibi:

esports teams, you either become a media outlet, or you become a

Paul Dawalibi:

game developer, or you become something entirely else, but no

Paul Dawalibi:

one it seems, figured out how to make a successful esports team.

Paul Dawalibi:

And this is sort of an admission of that. That's not fair to say.

Lindsay Poss:

I think it's fair for the more media and content

Lindsay Poss:

works. I think there's plenty of teams who are doing completely

Lindsay Poss:

different things in the competitive scene. But I

Lindsay Poss:

certainly I don't, I've been thinking about this all day, or

Lindsay Poss:

I guess, since it got announced. And yeah, I don't really, I

Lindsay Poss:

don't know, it's so hard with 100 Thieves, because I just

Lindsay Poss:

don't see the vision for the ones that are more content

Lindsay Poss:

focused, where they don't turn into just a purely media

Lindsay Poss:

organization. I don't see how they can keep the competitive

Lindsay Poss:

gaming persona easily. But I started thinking about this as

Lindsay Poss:

sort of thinking like, oh, well, maybe, maybe they'll develop a

Lindsay Poss:

mobile game, and that'll be super engaging for the

Lindsay Poss:

community. And they're, they're kind of a hyper casual org, they

Lindsay Poss:

can reach a hyper casual audience with a mobile game,

Lindsay Poss:

maybe that would be good, but then it's like, what's the

Lindsay Poss:

return on value for all of that? And at what point are you just

Lindsay Poss:

then a mobile game company? I don't know. I just I think that

Lindsay Poss:

there's definitely something to be said for orgs that are

Lindsay Poss:

actually out there competing and winning prize funds and being

Lindsay Poss:

able to monetize in that way and being successful that way. But I

Lindsay Poss:

struggle a lot with the Faze clans in the 100 thieves who

Lindsay Poss:

keep getting investment or a product that I think I just

Lindsay Poss:

probably don't believe in as much and I don't understand

Lindsay Poss:

where it's going.

Paul Dawalibi:

Well, I don't think they know who they are.

Paul Dawalibi:

Right that's part of the problem though. I don't think any of

Paul Dawalibi:

these orgs really know who they are anymore and it's always this

Paul Dawalibi:

moving target where we're content we're hoodies were games

Paul Dawalibi:

where what are we like we don't know let's try everything until

Paul Dawalibi:

the money runs out. Is what is like the management style here.

Paul Dawalibi:

When says Wouldn't it be easier for teams just to go partner

Paul Dawalibi:

with a game and final stages of development? Eg like Mr. Beast

Paul Dawalibi:

burger if the main goal is to leverage their brand to increase

Paul Dawalibi:

sales? A bit like influencers? shilling crypto games and coins?

Paul Dawalibi:

Feels capital intensive to make your own game? Like how many

Paul Dawalibi:

games succeed when? To me that's that's comment of the day. This

Paul Dawalibi:

is spot on in my mind, right? Like, why make your own game I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't get it. When you could, you could capture 90% of the

Paul Dawalibi:

value by partnering with a game developer.

Lindsay Poss:

This is exactly what Genji just did. And they've

Lindsay Poss:

been reaping a lot of benefits. As a result. They partnered with

Lindsay Poss:

a developer on the launch of a game and got their folks behind.

Lindsay Poss:

You got their streamers behind it helped with the whole launch

Lindsay Poss:

and it was really Well done, and it was really smart. So there

Lindsay Poss:

are teams out there that are doing things in the game

Lindsay Poss:

development space that I think are successful. Obviously, it

Lindsay Poss:

remains to be seen exactly what Project X is, and what 100

Lindsay Poss:

Thieves is going to do. I don't necessarily have a lot of faith,

Lindsay Poss:

but I am also prepared to be wrong on that. And if they blow

Lindsay Poss:

it out of the water and admit that

Jeff Cohen:

I totally agree. I mean, these guys haven't proven

Jeff Cohen:

that they can execute on a level that I think would be required

Jeff Cohen:

to create an entirely different business model. And I also, you

Jeff Cohen:

know, it almost, I don't want to say it offends me. But I think I

Jeff Cohen:

think what they are innately doing is saying almost, that

Jeff Cohen:

marketing is more important than actually building a great game.

Jeff Cohen:

And building a great game engine and building serve, like stuff

Jeff Cohen:

that they've never had to do, right. They have no, and I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know what kind of game they're gonna build, but they have no,

Jeff Cohen:

you know, server architecture, you know, people on staff

Jeff Cohen:

probably know how to balance a game, like, no character design,

Jeff Cohen:

like, they need to bring all of that in house, the only thing

Jeff Cohen:

they have is distribution. So maybe like they have a little

Jeff Cohen:

bit of better, you know, they may be able to boost

Jeff Cohen:

distribution a little bit. Like if they took, you know, a normal

Jeff Cohen:

game, and they got behind it, like Lindsay just said, they may

Jeff Cohen:

help. What's your reasoning, that's

Paul Dawalibi:

the only one can buy. Just to be clear,

Jeff Cohen:

exactly. Anyone could go to the, you know,

Jeff Cohen:

someone else like phase and say, hey, you know, I'm gonna pay you

Jeff Cohen:

$50 million, only stream our game for the next month.

Paul Dawalibi:

And just building on that, like, I've never heard

Paul Dawalibi:

of a game development company come out and say, hey, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, we failed. Because, you know, like, we just didn't get

Paul Dawalibi:

we couldn't get enough streamers to play our game. Like, it just

Paul Dawalibi:

like distribution is not why the gaming business model fails,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? It's not like, meaning. It's not like, Oh, my God, we

Paul Dawalibi:

spent so much on distribution for our game, this is why it

Paul Dawalibi:

failed. And therefore we have to bring it in house, right? Like,

Paul Dawalibi:

it's no that said, no one ever. And so, like, I will tell you

Paul Dawalibi:

right now, guys, this will fail miserably. And I'll give you 100

Paul Dawalibi:

reasons why it will fail. Like, we can start with the management

Paul Dawalibi:

whose to Jeff's point, has not shown any ability to execute

Paul Dawalibi:

beyond selling hoodies, let's be honest with ourselves to there,

Paul Dawalibi:

they're going to spend all this money making a game. And the

Paul Dawalibi:

idea is we're going to push our eyeballs to this game, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

That's our big advantage. But if the game is no good, which

Paul Dawalibi:

there's a high likelihood none of that matters. And even if the

Paul Dawalibi:

game is good, the current state of gaming is, you know, there's

Paul Dawalibi:

more games than ever coming out than ever. And, and the shelf

Paul Dawalibi:

life of gaming of games is drastically reducing is

Paul Dawalibi:

decreasing over time, right? People play a game for three

Paul Dawalibi:

weeks, and then it goes away. And then the next hot thing

Paul Dawalibi:

comes along. So all this investment, so it can be red hot

Paul Dawalibi:

for three weeks, and then what you And that's assuming the

Paul Dawalibi:

game's good. So you're investing into something with a massively

Paul Dawalibi:

shorts, short shelf life, which doesn't make sense to me,

Paul Dawalibi:

there's misalignment there. And then the third thing is just

Paul Dawalibi:

this totally unoriginal. And I said with the DACA was a wrong

Paul Dawalibi:

approach. I was gonna say it with 100 Thieves, it's the wrong

Paul Dawalibi:

approach. You don't build great art, which is what games are,

Paul Dawalibi:

via consensus via like, a committee. You don't get 12,000

Paul Dawalibi:

opinions and then make decisions based on 12,000 opinions. That's

Paul Dawalibi:

not how great art is made. And it's never been made that way.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I mean, the fact that they're just knocking off the

Paul Dawalibi:

dock shows how unoriginal and lame these guys are, surely.

Paul Dawalibi:

Jimmy?

Jimmy Baratta:

No, I mean, I think you guys are right, I just

Jimmy Baratta:

the one thing I'll probably add or put out there is they can put

Jimmy Baratta:

out a mediocre game, and still succeed in this and then just

Jimmy Baratta:

keep cycling through mediocre games that they make popular

Jimmy Baratta:

that they feel. Again, it's not about having a successful

Jimmy Baratta:

franchise a successful IP to them. It's about sales, like in

Jimmy Baratta:

turn and turning over hoodies or whatever else they're trying to

Jimmy Baratta:

sell us on. So I agree that it's going to be a shitty game, I

Jimmy Baratta:

agree that they haven't proven that they can execute beyond

Jimmy Baratta:

hoodies and content. I agree that orgs clearly are struggling

Jimmy Baratta:

if they have to figure out these new non traditional revenue

Jimmy Baratta:

streams and big swings like this and that this is a rip off of

Jimmy Baratta:

what Doc's doing. I just think that they could probably find

Jimmy Baratta:

success with a web based HTML game that they you know, if it

Jimmy Baratta:

makes them money, if it makes them more money than it costs

Jimmy Baratta:

them, then it's a win. If it entertains their audience for a

Jimmy Baratta:

week or a month, then they can do that. And churn and keep

Jimmy Baratta:

pumping these out and go on to the next game pretty relatively

Jimmy Baratta:

cheaply. And again, that's not a model I want to see. I just

Jimmy Baratta:

think that they could find success making crappy games.

Jeff Cohen:

Do you think their audience that because I totally

Jeff Cohen:

agree like the first game? Yeah, definitely. No matter what

Jeff Cohen:

you're gonna play. Same thing with the doc second game. Okay,

Jeff Cohen:

first one stock maybe you know, the people will play like, I

Jeff Cohen:

don't think their fans are that loyal if they're just churning

Jeff Cohen:

out like garbage like mobile games or something like just

Jeff Cohen:

crappy, like, I don't know, are people leaving, like, to me, I

Jeff Cohen:

think they're more like a lose their audience than their

Jeff Cohen:

audience to start liking these games.

Jimmy Baratta:

Putting the reputation at stake with this

Paul Dawalibi:

game sucks. Like, let's take the extreme scenario

Paul Dawalibi:

if the game sucks, I guarantee you they sell far less hoodies

Paul Dawalibi:

as a consequence.

Jimmy Baratta:

I mean, if the game sucks, then they probably

Jimmy Baratta:

don't make more games, right? That's also what

Jeff Cohen:

if you're spending a lot of money,

Paul Dawalibi:

they listen to our podcast episode from last

Paul Dawalibi:

week. I mean, what was? What was the comments on game developers

Paul Dawalibi:

like they're just commanding massive amounts of money right

Paul Dawalibi:

now. Because it's such a hot space, right? This is not going

Paul Dawalibi:

to be cheap. 100 Thieves is not going to get game developers for

Paul Dawalibi:

you know, 50 grand ahead, just because they're 100 Thieves,

Paul Dawalibi:

these game developers that are literally going anywhere making

Paul Dawalibi:

hundreds of 1000s of dollars. I mean, this is such a fool's

Paul Dawalibi:

errand, and also confirms that there's zero oversight at most

Paul Dawalibi:

of these themes to Chris's point. Like there's no sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

level head level headed kind of voice in the room saying, let's

Paul Dawalibi:

take a step back, guys when you know, this 20 Bill 20 million,

Paul Dawalibi:

we're about to blow. Where is this maybe better spent. Alonso

Paul Dawalibi:

says they can promote the game. But the development isn't there

Paul Dawalibi:

seems like involving the community in the development is

Paul Dawalibi:

part of their promotion as well. Alonzo No, no doubt, right.

Paul Dawalibi:

Like, it's like you create hype, you build it up, you create this

Paul Dawalibi:

idea that you can have input into this game. And it's all

Paul Dawalibi:

well and good. But like, I just don't know if you can truly

Paul Dawalibi:

authentically take you know, 100,000 opinions and bake it

Paul Dawalibi:

into a game and the game not suck. Chris says to Jimmy could

Paul Dawalibi:

100 Thieves have saved split gate?

Jimmy Baratta:

Chris Paul, and I have seen what split gate is

Jimmy Baratta:

going to look like and I don't think it needs saving. So put on

Jimmy Baratta:

your boots and get ready. It looks like a lot of fun.

Paul Dawalibi:

I will it wasn't to me. But I will. I will second

Paul Dawalibi:

that that. I don't think split gates, given that they raised

Paul Dawalibi:

100 million has counted themselves out just yet. And I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't think they need 100 thieves. They have a pretty good

Paul Dawalibi:

idea of where they're going. And I'll be I'll be curious to see

Paul Dawalibi:

how gamers react to it. But we did get a sneak peek. And it is

Paul Dawalibi:

pretty cool. So when she says is this some way to raise

Paul Dawalibi:

additional funding. Also in future they have some something

Paul Dawalibi:

additional 2.2 at IPO or future funding round and look at all

Paul Dawalibi:

these verticals we have. Although fresh investment is

Paul Dawalibi:

going to be hard this year, I get the impression. I think

Paul Dawalibi:

fresh investments this year, probably won't what what like in

Paul Dawalibi:

game developers won't slow down this year when despite the

Paul Dawalibi:

general market slowdown, but most of the VCs are still flush

Paul Dawalibi:

with cash. So does anyone though think that this is a ploy to

Paul Dawalibi:

raise more money?

Jeff Cohen:

I think it's an interesting point. Actually, you

Jeff Cohen:

know what I'm thinking I was thinking in the face plans back

Jeff Cohen:

deck. I mean, they were pointing to m&a other potential

Jeff Cohen:

opportunities. You know,

Paul Dawalibi:

like, Jeff, what was there was one thing on there

Paul Dawalibi:

now I forget,

Jeff Cohen:

like future potential opportunity. m&a was

Jeff Cohen:

like 50 m&a was growth, which is, you know, ridiculous. But,

Jeff Cohen:

so that would have made sense in the context of, hey, just throw

Jeff Cohen:

that in there. And, you know, I think if it was six months ago,

Jeff Cohen:

but now the markets kind of changed a bit with these specs,

Jeff Cohen:

but like, yeah, you could have easily been like, Well, look,

Jeff Cohen:

we're gonna do a billion dollars in revenue in game sales in

Jeff Cohen:

three years. And investors are gonna go, okay, like, sounds

Jeff Cohen:

great. Now, I don't think you're gonna, you know, that exists

Jeff Cohen:

anymore. But um, I think it's a really good point by Wednesday,

Jeff Cohen:

that could be part of a pitch that, you know, this is the

Jeff Cohen:

future for them.

Paul Dawalibi:

And does anyone think that the game may be a

Paul Dawalibi:

blockchain game at some point, or evolve into that? If that's

Paul Dawalibi:

not the thinking already? Or we're gonna see 100 Thieves

Paul Dawalibi:

token of some sort? Like, does anyone think they really go down

Paul Dawalibi:

hardcore, that path Lindsey,

Lindsay Poss:

there might be so I could see there being some

Lindsay Poss:

kind of tie. And this is one of the I mean, I think all of us

Lindsay Poss:

actually really liked the NFT that they did, if I remember

Lindsay Poss:

properly, which is kind of that was, I guess, a curveball given

Lindsay Poss:

our usual kind of thoughts surrounding 100 Thieves but I

Lindsay Poss:

thought it was actually super cool enough to use Super Bowls

Lindsay Poss:

that they gave it away for free and I don't know how successful

Lindsay Poss:

it was for fan engagement, but it was certainly forward

Lindsay Poss:

thinking and a pretty good activation as far as as far as

Lindsay Poss:

teams and these kind of more casual orcs are concerned. So

Lindsay Poss:

I'm not sure given how that went. They may consider shifting

Lindsay Poss:

to a blockchain style game, but I I think that it's just wild to

Lindsay Poss:

announce again, what is not wild, but it's crazy to me do

Lindsay Poss:

you announce a game project? And like, we have absolutely no

Lindsay Poss:

details on what type? Of course, right? Watching game, it could

Lindsay Poss:

be a mobile game, it could be a PC game, it could be an Oculus

Lindsay Poss:

game, like, it can be a lot of things. It can be a board game

Lindsay Poss:

like.

Paul Dawalibi:

A great question, though, do you think they know

Paul Dawalibi:

and just don't say? Or do you think it's truly that they just

Paul Dawalibi:

haven't thought about it yet? Like, we're gonna make a game.

Paul Dawalibi:

And then we'll figure it out. I would imagine

Lindsay Poss:

that there's some type of direction that they're

Lindsay Poss:

all excited about. And that's why they made the announcement.

Lindsay Poss:

But I still would also imagine that it's early, they're trying

Lindsay Poss:

to, you know, gather hype, all this stuff, that direction may

Lindsay Poss:

change, depending on who jumps on board, one investment in

Lindsay Poss:

drawers, whatever. I would imagine that they have an idea

Lindsay Poss:

of what they want, and it'll adapt depending on to that

Jeff Cohen:

vein, it's an interesting question. Like, why

Jeff Cohen:

now? And maybe this gets to where when she's saying maybe

Jeff Cohen:

this answers your question a little bit, Paul, why announced

Jeff Cohen:

this now? You know, either it's for financing, or it's for

Jeff Cohen:

recruiting, right? Because this games, presumably, they haven't

Jeff Cohen:

been working on this for a while, I think we would have

Jeff Cohen:

heard about that. They were hiring, you know, just put a

Jeff Cohen:

garden out there. Like this game is not going to come for two,

Jeff Cohen:

maybe three years. If it's a, you know, a PC console game,

Jeff Cohen:

like why make this big Pomp and Circumstance announcement now?

Jeff Cohen:

Like, haven't we learned that not smart? Like we've talked

Jeff Cohen:

about this?

Paul Dawalibi:

So they last raised around in December. So

Paul Dawalibi:

it's coming up on six months, which means they're probably

Paul Dawalibi:

running out of money. So my guess is like,

Jimmy Baratta:

well, well, you put you you put out Paul a great

Jimmy Baratta:

idea, which was is this a blockchain game? And I think

Jimmy Baratta:

that's a wonderful way to raise a lot of investor money because

Jimmy Baratta:

it's very popular right now, in a wonderful way to fail

Jimmy Baratta:

miserably and have a lot of people be like, Oh, well, it was

Jimmy Baratta:

a risky thing. We knew that getting into it. So I actually

Jimmy Baratta:

liked the idea. And I wouldn't be surprised if they come out

Jimmy Baratta:

with a blockchain game. One to attract dollars to to have

Jimmy Baratta:

justification if they do fail. I thought that was on point.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, yeah. I wonder if Andreessen we talked

Paul Dawalibi:

on the meta Business Podcast coming out next week at

Paul Dawalibi:

Andreessen and their new game fund. So that'll be interesting

Paul Dawalibi:

to see if they are in the next 100 Thieves round as a

Paul Dawalibi:

consequence. And Tonio says, I like how casual they're willing

Paul Dawalibi:

to maybe throw away 100 million. I don't know if it's gonna be

Paul Dawalibi:

100 million, but it's probably at least 20. You know, you got

Paul Dawalibi:

to think that they're gonna blow at least 20 30 million on this.

Paul Dawalibi:

Maybe 100 If they're trying to make like triple A level game,

Paul Dawalibi:

but I suspect this is not the targets not triple A quality

Paul Dawalibi:

game. When she says, I don't know what the multiple

Paul Dawalibi:

valuations are on game companies versus esports company. I mean,

Paul Dawalibi:

there's no public esports teams other than Astralis. And maybe

Paul Dawalibi:

faith, so hard, hard to say on that one. I, anecdotally, I

Paul Dawalibi:

think there's a lot more hype around game developers right now

Paul Dawalibi:

than esports. Companies.

Jeff Cohen:

I guess that's a good point. The, I think in

Jeff Cohen:

general, if we're talking about like the, like, an established

Jeff Cohen:

esports team, or like org versus like a like an EA, Activision.

Jeff Cohen:

It's definitely the multiples much higher on the esports. Org

Jeff Cohen:

front. But I guess if you're talking about startup, maybe,

Jeff Cohen:

you know blockchain gaming studios, they're getting

Jeff Cohen:

probably higher multiple than what we're seeing. Yep.

Paul Dawalibi:

When she says, it could be 100 Thieves, Wardle

Paul Dawalibi:

flush Sudoku. I mean, that it could be that could be their big

Paul Dawalibi:

plan for Project X. Even the name slain. I mean, it's so

Paul Dawalibi:

lame. I I'm constantly amazed at these companies, teams who

Paul Dawalibi:

consider themselves purveyors of cool, how lame some of their

Paul Dawalibi:

decision making is and how lame some of their stuff is. Just

Paul Dawalibi:

maybe just my opinion, I guess. All right, guys, let's move on.

Paul Dawalibi:

We got so much more news to get through, we're going to have

Paul Dawalibi:

quite a lightning round if it takes us this much time to get

Paul Dawalibi:

through these stories. I want to put two stories together here,

Paul Dawalibi:

because there were two, two different sort of reports on

Paul Dawalibi:

games that most of us know most of us love in terms of the

Paul Dawalibi:

numbers that they're putting up. And the first story was an

Paul Dawalibi:

update on Apex Apex legends hits 2 billion in earnings with

Paul Dawalibi:

continued growth. So Apex putting up big numbers years

Paul Dawalibi:

after release. This was on their earnings call. Yeah, EAS

Paul Dawalibi:

earnings call confirmed the game past the $2 billion mark and

Paul Dawalibi:

total earnings. So that's 2 billion over about three years.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's growing, so the game continues to grow, and revenue

Paul Dawalibi:

increased by 40% compared to the year before, and that season 12,

Paul Dawalibi:

which is the most recent was the game's most successful ever and

Paul Dawalibi:

executives. Back to apex legends will eventually make a billion

Paul Dawalibi:

dollars a year. The one thing that's coming out later this

Paul Dawalibi:

month is Apex legends mobile. So that that'll be interesting to

Paul Dawalibi:

see how that does. But they're projecting a billion dollars a

Paul Dawalibi:

year eventually for the apex legends franchise. Now I wanted

Paul Dawalibi:

to put this next to another story because 2 billion sounds

Paul Dawalibi:

like a really big number. And then I saw this story, which is,

Paul Dawalibi:

you know, pub G mobile surpasses seven and a half billion in

Paul Dawalibi:

total revenue. So since infancy since its inception, seven and a

Paul Dawalibi:

half billion earned, and that 57%, or roughly 4.7 billion,

Paul Dawalibi:

comes purely from its Chinese player base, where the game is

Paul Dawalibi:

called game for peace. Funny given what the game is about.

Paul Dawalibi:

And so pub G mobile seven and a half billion dollars over I want

Paul Dawalibi:

to say a slightly longer timeframe, I'm not in this

Paul Dawalibi:

article, and I'm trying to remember the exact year where

Paul Dawalibi:

pubsey mobile was launched, but it would have been relatively a

Paul Dawalibi:

three or four year kind of, I'll just confirm, or someone can

Paul Dawalibi:

confirm, release date. 2018. So for over a four year period.

Paul Dawalibi:

Wow. I'm curious what you guys make of these two stories,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? Like, these are the big success stories. This is I

Paul Dawalibi:

guess, what 100 Thieves is hoping for. But any any

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting thoughts on pub G mobile versus something like

Paul Dawalibi:

Apex legends? You know, given we all look at things from a North

Paul Dawalibi:

American lens sometimes and you wouldn't think that pubsey

Paul Dawalibi:

Mobile has done almost four times the revenue. Any thoughts

Paul Dawalibi:

on this? Jimmy? Are Jeff,

Jeff Cohen:

do you can go up? Yep.

Jimmy Baratta:

Oh, I mean, the only thought I or the only thing

Jimmy Baratta:

I wanted to say was I played the new season Apex last night. And

Jimmy Baratta:

it's awesome. I mean, I'm a big fan of apex. And I like seeing

Jimmy Baratta:

it do well. Apex obviously hasn't been out as long as pub G

Jimmy Baratta:

and there's something to be said that this is also shows the

Jimmy Baratta:

strength of pub G going mobile. But to your point Paul on or

Jimmy Baratta:

rather to that statistic, on the Chinese contribution to pub G

Jimmy Baratta:

success, how much I would love to have seen how hurt that was

Jimmy Baratta:

over the last six or so months, when all these crackdowns and

Jimmy Baratta:

training started happening. Because that's a huge chunk of

Jimmy Baratta:

of what puppies probably relying on, and something that they

Jimmy Baratta:

probably didn't see. So that also is actually an impressive

Jimmy Baratta:

number than considering it was probably a lot less recently

Jimmy Baratta:

right in recent times. But by Jeff that was really

Jeff Cohen:

those are those are in line with what I had say I'm

Jeff Cohen:

curious Jimmy if you will try the apex mobile now that it's

Jeff Cohen:

out or have you tried it?

Jimmy Baratta:

haven't tried it yet? You know, for first person

Jimmy Baratta:

shooters, I don't like it on mobile as much I like mobile for

Jimmy Baratta:

like I play Clash Royale every single day. But for FPS games, I

Jimmy Baratta:

don't play with a controller even I'm almost a mouse and

Jimmy Baratta:

keyboard on that. So I don't I don't know if I will play that.

Paul Dawalibi:

Does anyone think Apex will catch up to sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

the like will will Apex Apex legends mobile allow apex to

Paul Dawalibi:

catch up to pub G as a franchise in terms of total earnings?

Paul Dawalibi:

Lindsay,

Lindsay Poss:

I don't. I don't necessarily think it will. But I

Lindsay Poss:

have been impressed with Apex has staying power and every

Lindsay Poss:

season has been really popular. And they've really captured a

Lindsay Poss:

strong market here. And I mean 2 billion is not nothing to really

Lindsay Poss:

sneeze at for a uh, especially first person shooter when the

Lindsay Poss:

market can tend to be really proud of for them and get

Lindsay Poss:

replacements really quickly. Apex Apex still seems to have a

Lindsay Poss:

really crazy staying power in North America. I am curious to

Lindsay Poss:

see if they can capture that on mobile. My suspicion is that

Lindsay Poss:

they kind of won't because like we've pointed out a lot of these

Lindsay Poss:

markets are international markets that are already

Lindsay Poss:

dominated by pub G. And we're just not so sure that the first

Lindsay Poss:

person shooter mobile market or the shooter mobile market in

Lindsay Poss:

North America where apex is primarily centered right now is

Lindsay Poss:

that good. Don't know that they have the mobile power to unseat

Lindsay Poss:

the other in the other regions. But I I'm definitely thoroughly

Lindsay Poss:

impressed with the same power that Apex has had. And it's

Lindsay Poss:

amidst all of the Call of Duty sucks and games being released

Lindsay Poss:

and all of that it's like even with new releases, people will

Lindsay Poss:

play for a month and they go right back to apex. So whatever

Lindsay Poss:

they are doing, it's working really well. I don't necessarily

Lindsay Poss:

think that will translate into mobile but why not try it they

Lindsay Poss:

have a good thing going.

Paul Dawalibi:

When she says apex is the only game I still

Paul Dawalibi:

play regularly. It's just slick. Other friends have come back

Paul Dawalibi:

recently to anecdotally love the game. I just I'm wondering like

Paul Dawalibi:

I wish there was some learning to tease from this right is it

Paul Dawalibi:

is it that starting with PC first is still the path like

Paul Dawalibi:

Because keep in mind both these games started on PC first, it

Paul Dawalibi:

was on PC first Apex on PC first, and then you figure out

Paul Dawalibi:

once you hit success, then you use mobile as sort of the

Paul Dawalibi:

caching kind of mechanism. Does anyone think that this is a

Paul Dawalibi:

model? We may see more of that? You know? Or is this a dying

Paul Dawalibi:

breed? Is this like any learnings from these two, or any

Paul Dawalibi:

anything you like from one versus the other?

Jeff Cohen:

I think it makes sense to build a franchise with

Jeff Cohen:

kind of your hardest core players on on like the most,

Jeff Cohen:

like high impact device, and then you sort of broaden the

Jeff Cohen:

funnel once people know the brand. And you expose it to more

Jeff Cohen:

people, particularly in other regions. So I think that sort of

Jeff Cohen:

makes sense. It'll be interesting to see, like, you

Jeff Cohen:

know, for a while mobile shooters didn't work. And then

Jeff Cohen:

you started to have some that did well, like free Fire and

Jeff Cohen:

pub, G mobile. And it was kind of like, you know, the question

Jeff Cohen:

I think a lot of people had was like, Okay, were those two a

Jeff Cohen:

unicorns? And maybe they're only popular in regions where there

Jeff Cohen:

isn't? People really don't have PCs, or consoles. And like, will

Jeff Cohen:

those people transition? At some point, I think we had this

Jeff Cohen:

debate many times, you know, well, those two will transition

Jeff Cohen:

to PC console at some point. And then you had like, Call of Duty

Jeff Cohen:

mobile came out and did pretty well in the West. And this kind

Jeff Cohen:

of had staying power. And now we're kind of seeing this next

Jeff Cohen:

generation, I think we have Rainbow Six Siege coming out on

Jeff Cohen:

mobile Battlefield, eventually coming out on mobile, obviously,

Jeff Cohen:

Apex. So like, it'll be interesting to see whether those

Jeff Cohen:

early ones kind of just like, saturated the market, or if this

Jeff Cohen:

is like, this is the pattern that you just said, where you

Jeff Cohen:

take these massive franchises and bring them to mobile. I

Jeff Cohen:

don't know if I have a take on it yet. But that's that's kind

Jeff Cohen:

of what we're seeing.

Paul Dawalibi:

I think the PC players do have a halo effect, I

Paul Dawalibi:

think the rest of the player base looks and says, I want to

Paul Dawalibi:

be that someday and being able to play on your phone feels like

Paul Dawalibi:

you're a part of that in a little in a small way, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

Same way. Not everyone can afford a, you know, $20,000

Paul Dawalibi:

Chanel handbag, but you can go buy a $200 pair of sunglasses,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? And a lot of people can afford that. And so you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

it's how I look at the the interaction between these two.

Paul Dawalibi:

And it's sort of proven out by these two games, which I think

Paul Dawalibi:

is interesting. And, you know, remains to be seen how much of

Paul Dawalibi:

an increase Apex legends mobile will give to that franchise, but

Paul Dawalibi:

I suspect it should follow about the pub G kind of curve in the

Paul Dawalibi:

same way. One last question on this. The CFO of EA said a

Paul Dawalibi:

billion dollars a year for APEX legends? How many years do we

Paul Dawalibi:

think these kinds of franchises will last? Do you think any of

Paul Dawalibi:

them will have? CSGO? Wow, staying power? Anyone? Is anyone

Paul Dawalibi:

confident that the billion dollars a year isn't more than

Paul Dawalibi:

is more than just next year?

Jeff Cohen:

I think I mean, it's still growing. Like why you

Jeff Cohen:

know, it's alive service. So there, if anything, the game

Jeff Cohen:

should get better. Right? The more content the more heroes as

Jeff Cohen:

long as it stays balanced. you're updating graphics and

Jeff Cohen:

stuff like, in theory, it should continue to grow. Obviously,

Jeff Cohen:

nothing, nothing grows forever. But like, it will be harder,

Jeff Cohen:

just like in general theory of network effects. And like

Jeff Cohen:

compounding, you know, almost like compounding a moat, like it

Jeff Cohen:

will be harder for some income and the knock off apex in two

Jeff Cohen:

years or three years after more development time more, you know,

Jeff Cohen:

iteration and polishing and building the lore. And maybe

Jeff Cohen:

they'll make a TV series like it should be harder to knock

Jeff Cohen:

someone off then than it was the first year. You know, nothing

Jeff Cohen:

lasts forever. But I don't know,

Paul Dawalibi:

when she says is it more that if your game is

Paul Dawalibi:

good on PC, it's probably already a good game mechanic

Paul Dawalibi:

story experience, some more likely a hit, ie you're picking

Paul Dawalibi:

winners to transfer. There's a lot of mobile only games that

Paul Dawalibi:

have done incredibly well. But assume the success rate is low.

Paul Dawalibi:

Compared to PC ports. It could just be that the denominator in

Paul Dawalibi:

mobile only games is so high, right? There's just so much that

Paul Dawalibi:

gets put out there. Such volume that if we're looking at as a

Paul Dawalibi:

success rate as a percentage, that it's low compared to PC

Paul Dawalibi:

ports. Wenjing but your points a good one. Jimmy, you were gonna

Paul Dawalibi:

say something?

Jimmy Baratta:

Oh, I mean, I'm just curious, the difference and

Jimmy Baratta:

expense in making a mobile gaming and a PC game. And then I

Jimmy Baratta:

was also thinking, you know, like, when Overwatch was

Jimmy Baratta:

struggling, we saw a lot of players go to valorant we saw a

Jimmy Baratta:

lot of players go to CSGO I, you know, even when pub G wasn't at

Jimmy Baratta:

the top anymore, and when fortnight kind of replaced it. I

Jimmy Baratta:

thought pub G did a great job retaining its loyal followers

Jimmy Baratta:

and still being relevant within its own community. So I think

Jimmy Baratta:

there's something to be said about the type of genre the type

Jimmy Baratta:

of game that he created. I don't see them going away but we don't

Jimmy Baratta:

know what that next game is out there is because there's only so

Jimmy Baratta:

many hours in the day and you know, people are gonna play the

Jimmy Baratta:

next best thing Even when Warzone was at the top, you

Jimmy Baratta:

know, I didn't see either of these two really struck. I mean,

Jimmy Baratta:

these are great numbers, you know, they're putting up great

Jimmy Baratta:

numbers and I think kraftin In particular, right, like they

Jimmy Baratta:

need pubg to do well for them to do well. EA doesn't really need

Jimmy Baratta:

I think apex to do well for EA to do as well, like,

Jimmy Baratta:

comparatively, but, you know, it's just but that doesn't mean

Jimmy Baratta:

that they want to lose all the

Paul Dawalibi:

billion dollars a year, this is starting to have a

Paul Dawalibi:

pretty major impact on the company's bottom line. Right?

Jimmy Baratta:

Yeah. So I think they're happy with that. I don't

Jimmy Baratta:

know if I don't know if they expect that. They're not that or

Jimmy Baratta:

not, I'm sure they, you know, that's always the goal is to

Jimmy Baratta:

succeed and do well. But, um, but yeah, it's starting to

Jimmy Baratta:

become significant. So they're gonna do what they can and what

Jimmy Baratta:

they need to do to keep it to keep it relevant. And so you

Jimmy Baratta:

know, as an apex fan, I hope so. But, but I think both of these

Jimmy Baratta:

guys have unique games that aren't just your typical FPS

Jimmy Baratta:

like a typical throw away FPS, I don't get the same fixer feeling

Jimmy Baratta:

playing other FPS is as I do when I play apex, which is why I

Jimmy Baratta:

continue to play it versus like we were saying with Overwatch, I

Jimmy Baratta:

think a lot of people found that going to CSGO going to valor it.

Jimmy Baratta:

So I think it's also about just what does the game do? Or what

Jimmy Baratta:

can I continue to do with new seasons, new battle passes, new

Jimmy Baratta:

releases and things of that nature to keep their audience

Jimmy Baratta:

because they've both done a good job, I think building this oil,

Jimmy Baratta:

this loyal following.

Paul Dawalibi:

Guys, I want to move on here I have one more

Paul Dawalibi:

story before we get to our lightning round. Before I do

Paul Dawalibi:

that, I just want to say a quick word. This live stream, this

Paul Dawalibi:

weekly news show very generously supported by YouGov YouGov

Paul Dawalibi:

produces the absolute best data on gamers esports fans, games

Paul Dawalibi:

all around the world. If you're looking at the esports industry,

Paul Dawalibi:

looking at the gaming industry, trying to reach that gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

audience, your brand, your team, your whoever you're trying to

Paul Dawalibi:

get after gamers, you need data to make really good decisions,

Paul Dawalibi:

you have data is absolutely the best. It's actionable. It's what

Paul Dawalibi:

they call living data. So it's changing all the time, it's

Paul Dawalibi:

updating all the time, allows you to make incredibly,

Paul Dawalibi:

incredibly powerful decisions. We've highlighted it many times

Paul Dawalibi:

on the podcast, I highly recommend going and checking out

Paul Dawalibi:

some of those YouGov insights segments, there's so much you

Paul Dawalibi:

guys can learn from the data that they produce. Some of those

Paul Dawalibi:

segments are linked from yougov.com/b O E, for business

Paul Dawalibi:

of esports. I'm putting that link in some of the chats. But

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely if you haven't already go even if you have

Paul Dawalibi:

already being updated pretty consistently, go check out

Paul Dawalibi:

yougov.com/b O E, oh, sure you have some love. If you want to

Paul Dawalibi:

reach out to them, please feel free to get to them directly, or

Paul Dawalibi:

go through any of us. So reach out to myself to Jimmy to Jeff

Paul Dawalibi:

to Lindsey, any of us can put you in touch with YouGov if

Paul Dawalibi:

you're looking for the absolute best data in this space, so you

Paul Dawalibi:

gov.com/boe Stop what you're doing for a minute, go check out

Paul Dawalibi:

the website show you give some love, and we appreciate their

Paul Dawalibi:

support. Alright guys, let's, let's do one last story. And

Paul Dawalibi:

then I'm going to get to our lightning round here. And this

Paul Dawalibi:

last story is about Hulu. And I thought it was interesting given

Paul Dawalibi:

the conversation we've had around Netflix recently. So the

Paul Dawalibi:

headline here Hulu partners with Xbox to bring PC gamers free

Paul Dawalibi:

games in a bundle deal. So Hulu and X Box announced this

Paul Dawalibi:

partnership. If you're a US Hulu subscriber, you're getting three

Paul Dawalibi:

months of PC Game Pass as part of their Hulu Friends with

Paul Dawalibi:

Benefits initiative. Interesting, interesting title.

Paul Dawalibi:

And it's it's the it says here the move to target gamers

Paul Dawalibi:

follows Netflix's entry into the gaming market. So I just want to

Paul Dawalibi:

highlight the differences here, right, Netflix has gone and

Paul Dawalibi:

either acquired or created mobile games that are now part

Paul Dawalibi:

of the subscription. So if you're a Netflix subscriber, you

Paul Dawalibi:

get access to those mobile games ad free. Versus Hulu, which says

Paul Dawalibi:

if you're a Hulu subscriber, for a limited time for three months,

Paul Dawalibi:

you can get game PC Game Pass for free. I would love to go and

Paul Dawalibi:

I want to hear chat on this. And I want to hear you guys who's

Paul Dawalibi:

got the best approach between the two streaming networks here

Paul Dawalibi:

on gaming. That's partnership versus sort of build by include

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't know, ever you want to characterize Netflix's strategy,

Paul Dawalibi:

but it's different. And I'm curious where you guys are at on

Paul Dawalibi:

this one. You love one you hate one? Lindsey

Lindsay Poss:

I don't love this only because this is the thing

Lindsay Poss:

Hulu has done previously, they did it with Spotify. They kind

Lindsay Poss:

of do these these various media partnerships. And I don't, I

Lindsay Poss:

don't I don't really feel that it's that original or exciting

Lindsay Poss:

or like a new and interesting idea. I think what happened is

Lindsay Poss:

what will probably happen with Spotify, which is people pay for

Lindsay Poss:

Spotify got Hulu for free and the students that ran out they

Lindsay Poss:

left Hulu and I think people may do this if they are already

Lindsay Poss:

interested in getting gamepass and then they'll just let the

Lindsay Poss:

Hulu part Go away. I guess I can say that it's nice to see people

Lindsay Poss:

kind of try different things. But I find this kind of

Lindsay Poss:

partnership just like a cheap bundle thing that a lot of

Lindsay Poss:

companies do that just doesn't really scream to me. Oh, you're

Lindsay Poss:

sharing audiences? Oh, you're bringing people to the platform?

Lindsay Poss:

I just don't really. I mean, this isn't a bad thing. But it's

Lindsay Poss:

not like, oh, so smart. Now, you're definitely gonna beat

Lindsay Poss:

Netflix for me, either. I don't think that that's a better or

Lindsay Poss:

worse strategy than Netflix. I just think it's a thing that

Lindsay Poss:

media companies do to try to share users. And I don't know

Lindsay Poss:

how successful it is.

Jeff Cohen:

I don't think I mean, I assume that Microsoft,

Jeff Cohen:

and Hulu, or anyone that signs up, right, so it's just a

Jeff Cohen:

create, I think it's a creative Do you think they'd have to pay?

Jeff Cohen:

I assume I would. I mean, obviously, because,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? If you're a Hulu, you're offering

Paul Dawalibi:

something free to your user base, like meaning that there's

Paul Dawalibi:

benefit for you.

Jeff Cohen:

I don't know if that was really my in dollars. I

Jeff Cohen:

would say it's a good, totally good point. I clearly, I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know, my initial assumption was that like, clearly Microsoft, if

Jeff Cohen:

it's free, Microsoft is getting the better end of the deal,

Jeff Cohen:

right? Because I don't think any Hulu subscriber is going to no

Jeff Cohen:

one's going to subscribe to Hulu, so they can get free Game

Jeff Cohen:

Pass. Because you can probably even be Game Pass for like $1

Jeff Cohen:

Anyway, so like, you're not, you're not going to subscribe to

Jeff Cohen:

Hulu to get three months of Game Pass. It's just so who is like

Jeff Cohen:

gaining anything out of it. And no one who has who's like, Well,

Jeff Cohen:

I was gonna unsubscribe, but like, now I get Game Pass for

Jeff Cohen:

three months, like, wow, I'm gonna stick around. I assume

Jeff Cohen:

this is like an affiliate deal where it's like a business

Jeff Cohen:

development deal. They go out, they say, well, Hulu, you may

Jeff Cohen:

have, you know, same thing with the Spotify thing, like, well,

Jeff Cohen:

there might be a bunch of people that are boo that don't have

Jeff Cohen:

Game Pass, boom, give this to all of your people send an email

Jeff Cohen:

to, you know, your millions of followers. And if you get 1% of

Jeff Cohen:

1% to sign up, boom, Game Pass, just got an extra 150,000

Jeff Cohen:

subscribers and they pay $25 or something to Hulu boom, who

Jeff Cohen:

makes 2 million bucks. And, you know, a couple of people in

Jeff Cohen:

business development are pretty happy. They you know, they show

Jeff Cohen:

some good metrics to their bosses and like, they get some

Jeff Cohen:

good articles written about the partnership. Like I think it's

Jeff Cohen:

probably as simple as that. So I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

hearing no excitement on this from Lindsay

Paul Dawalibi:

or Jeff, is the conclusion that you guys all like Netflix's

Paul Dawalibi:

approach here to gaming better?

Lindsay Poss:

No, no, it's apples and oranges. For me

Lindsay Poss:

honestly.

Paul Dawalibi:

Clearly, there are apples and oranges. But you

Paul Dawalibi:

can still like one better than the other?

Lindsay Poss:

I don't know, I don't. I think Xbox Game Pass is

Lindsay Poss:

successful in a lot of other ways that have nothing to do

Lindsay Poss:

with this whole deal. And I think that their strategy right

Lindsay Poss:

now is is probably the one that I prefer. That being said, I

Lindsay Poss:

also have faith in a lot of Netflix's long term visions.

Jimmy Baratta:

So I think I think it has me three points on

Jimmy Baratta:

our Hulu. I mean, we all I'm sure we've all used Hulu, I'm

Jimmy Baratta:

sure we've all we all have Netflix and and I'm not sure if

Jimmy Baratta:

you guys have tinkered or experience with game paths or

Jimmy Baratta:

not yet, I think who is doing the better job here than

Jimmy Baratta:

Netflix, I think it's very expensive for Netflix to try and

Jimmy Baratta:

make games just to roll into their existing subscription

Jimmy Baratta:

model that these games could be not that great. They're taking a

Jimmy Baratta:

big chance on trying to create something that's worth playing.

Jimmy Baratta:

And and it's it's admirable. And it's a great idea to try and

Jimmy Baratta:

utilize their IP in new ways and, and continue to retain

Jimmy Baratta:

these younger audiences. But to think that any Netflix game that

Jimmy Baratta:

they create is going to be better than even one of the

Jimmy Baratta:

worst games on Game Pass, I think is a stretch Game Pass is

Jimmy Baratta:

just it has too much on it. It's too good of a product. And to

Jimmy Baratta:

Jeff's point, I think this is probably a value in kind deal.

Jimmy Baratta:

So from a business perspective, if this isn't costing Hulu or

Jimmy Baratta:

your Xbox that much money other than marketing dollars, they're

Jimmy Baratta:

already coming out way ahead, then Netflix that has to save

Jimmy Baratta:

tons of money into game development, just to retain and

Jimmy Baratta:

to stop losing users, right. So I think who's the winner here,

Jimmy Baratta:

but we don't know enough details as to the relationship between

Jimmy Baratta:

who and game paths for me firm in that belief. But that's just

Jimmy Baratta:

how I feel about this is I would rather have game paths than any

Jimmy Baratta:

Netflix game. And kudos to Hulu for being like we don't need to

Jimmy Baratta:

do this in house we can just partner with the best.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, my guess is actually the ultimate winner in

Jeff Cohen:

this story is gamepass. Because and then I think Hulu vs Netflix

Jeff Cohen:

I agree with Jimmy it's lower risk but I think who ends up

Jeff Cohen:

making some money off this whereas Netflix is just burning

Jeff Cohen:

money and I would bet with the way their stock prices going and

Jeff Cohen:

they're just announced some layoffs. I wouldn't be surprised

Jeff Cohen:

if in the next six months we hear the whole gaming thing is

Jeff Cohen:

just shut down in Netflix because it's not going anywhere.

Jeff Cohen:

But what I think is happening here is Xbox knows their

Jeff Cohen:

customer acquisition costs. So say $25 a user, they probably go

Jeff Cohen:

to Hulu say, hey, we'll pay you 10 bucks anyone you get, and

Jeff Cohen:

then they know no matter what they're gonna, they're acquiring

Jeff Cohen:

users for cheaper. So like, that's probably what that

Paul Dawalibi:

I think when she agrees with you guys says that's

Paul Dawalibi:

a full win win for Xbox right? X Box Get a load of new Game Pass

Paul Dawalibi:

users for no acquisition costs, or I guess less than maybe their

Paul Dawalibi:

acquisition, their usual acquisition costs, their average

Paul Dawalibi:

acquisition costs, assume like all things this only applies to

Paul Dawalibi:

new users probably when Gmail would be my guess it's not. It

Paul Dawalibi:

does say, you have to be new to Game Pass yet, you can't have an

Paul Dawalibi:

existing Game Pass subscription. Chris, I'm gonna I'm gonna read

Paul Dawalibi:

your comment, Chris. But you sort of half stole my hot take.

Paul Dawalibi:

And so Chris says, Keep an eye out on Netflix's interactive

Paul Dawalibi:

kids shows this battle kitty thing is blowing up. And it's

Paul Dawalibi:

fascinating for the world of a new gaming audience. That

Paul Dawalibi:

talking here. And Chris, I think it's so smart what you just

Paul Dawalibi:

said, my hot take was really going to be now that I've had

Paul Dawalibi:

time to think about the Netflix thing. Now that I've seen sort

Paul Dawalibi:

of Hulu's play here. It's one of these things where my conclusion

Paul Dawalibi:

is they're all confused. They all sort of don't know who they

Paul Dawalibi:

are. And you know, their media companies, their streaming

Paul Dawalibi:

platforms, their content companies. Why do none of them

Paul Dawalibi:

make gaming content right like this, there's a million

Paul Dawalibi:

opportunities to make or licensed gaming content gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

related content, gaming related news, streaming, gaming content,

Paul Dawalibi:

like there's a million verticals they could go into, in terms of

Paul Dawalibi:

putting out content for a gaming audience to hook gamers to keep

Paul Dawalibi:

gamers on their system. That is not just making a mobile game or

Paul Dawalibi:

partnering with game paths or doing any of the above where

Paul Dawalibi:

like, they could do what they do best, which is content and

Paul Dawalibi:

licensing content. And really think about how to target that

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming audience. You go on both of these platforms today,

Paul Dawalibi:

there's nothing there's almost nothing there's, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

there's the arcane, there's Witcher, there's, you know, a

Paul Dawalibi:

couple documentaries, and that's it. That's the that's totally I

Paul Dawalibi:

think such an opportunity for these companies to be licensing.

Paul Dawalibi:

I mean, I'm going to use us as an example but the kind of

Paul Dawalibi:

content we produce, which should be on on these on these

Paul Dawalibi:

platforms, and the kinds of content other people produce in

Paul Dawalibi:

the space that is totally, totally underserved today. So

Paul Dawalibi:

Chris's comment. Sorry, Chris, that I extended sort of your

Paul Dawalibi:

thoughts here to beyond just sort of gaming shows or

Paul Dawalibi:

interactive kids shows but totally agree with you that this

Paul Dawalibi:

is something to look out for and that I'd be betting on the

Paul Dawalibi:

platforms that do that well versus offer free mobile games

Paul Dawalibi:

or do anything else like that? When she says how integrated is

Paul Dawalibi:

Hulu with Disney in the majority ownership? Is this the start of

Paul Dawalibi:

a wider partnership to license their IP to x Xbox for games etc

Paul Dawalibi:

Disney plus etc might be far fetched. I mean, good good

Paul Dawalibi:

tinfoil hat theory wins. Yeah, I love that you're now you're

Paul Dawalibi:

really part of this. I think they're pretty integrated from a

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely from an ownership standpoint, from a management

Paul Dawalibi:

standpoint. I think these things are still relatively siloed from

Paul Dawalibi:

a day to day management so I don't know how quickly we would

Paul Dawalibi:

see that like Hulu and Disney still technically compete.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, I think they do. They do run

Jimmy Baratta:

bundles right? You can pay for ESPN also ESPN

Jimmy Baratta:

also how hard would it be to throw in game pass into the mix

Jimmy Baratta:

there and just do a type of profit share?

Jeff Cohen:

I like that one G bungee it makes a lot of sense.

Jeff Cohen:

I think if they were smart they wouldn't be doing this. I think

Jeff Cohen:

disease management it's pretty pretty bad right now since Bob

Jeff Cohen:

Iger left and there they have a whole world of problems in terms

Jeff Cohen:

of the Disney plus growth slowing the whole thing in

Jeff Cohen:

Florida whatever you want to call that. The parks still

Jeff Cohen:

opening up the cruises you know post COVID So like, my guess is

Jeff Cohen:

their eyes are sort of off the ball on this but they should be

Jeff Cohen:

leaning in the interactive way more.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, when Jake says since Disney doesn't have

Paul Dawalibi:

their own game studios I mean, Jeff I think captured it

Paul Dawalibi:

perfectly there. Alright guys, I want to I want to move on. I

Paul Dawalibi:

want to get to our everyone's favorite new segment. The

Paul Dawalibi:

lightning round. Roll the intro

Paul Dawalibi:

alright guys, this is the way it's gonna work. All right, I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

going to introduce topics rapid fire style. We're each person in

Paul Dawalibi:

clockwise then counterclaims. likewise, order is going to have

Paul Dawalibi:

30 seconds to give their take on the story when their 30 seconds

Paul Dawalibi:

is up, they will hear this, which means it's time to move to

Paul Dawalibi:

the next person. If you are in the chat, and you have an eye,

Paul Dawalibi:

you have a comment, you have a thought on the story, please,

Paul Dawalibi:

type quickly. And when it's my turn to go, I will try and read

Paul Dawalibi:

I will try and use my time to read as much as possible

Paul Dawalibi:

people's comments on each one. So I'm going to kick this off

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, we're going to start with a story on about Boost Mobile

Paul Dawalibi:

here. And the headline is Boost Mobile will let you lower your

Paul Dawalibi:

phone bill by playing games and watching ads, you can exchange

Paul Dawalibi:

boost coins for a discount on your bill. So basically, if you

Paul Dawalibi:

use their app, you play games and interact with the ads in the

Paul Dawalibi:

app, you earn boosts coin one boosts coins equal to one cent,

Paul Dawalibi:

and you can convert or exchange those boosts coins for a

Paul Dawalibi:

discount on your phone bill. So played earn sort of. There's no

Paul Dawalibi:

mention of blockchain directly in this article or in this

Paul Dawalibi:

release. But you can now play to earn dollars off your cell phone

Paul Dawalibi:

bill. Jeff, let's start with you.

Jeff Cohen:

I actually kind of like this. I mean, one of the

Jeff Cohen:

things we always criticize about play to earn is that, you know,

Jeff Cohen:

not everyone can take money out of the ecosystem, someone has to

Jeff Cohen:

put money in. Well, in this case, actually, someone is

Jeff Cohen:

putting money in the advertisers who are paying to get in front

Jeff Cohen:

of the, you know, the eyeballs. So I actually like that, you

Jeff Cohen:

know, rewarded ads had been thing on mobile for a while. And

Jeff Cohen:

I've actually, you know, really worked really well. So, you

Jeff Cohen:

know, well, a lot of people do this probably not. But it's it's

Jeff Cohen:

not the craziest thing. I don't know how you prevent people from

Jeff Cohen:

just like putting on the ad and walking away and just keep doing

Jeff Cohen:

that. But

Lindsay Poss:

let's see. I'm a big fan of this as someone who

Lindsay Poss:

regularly plays mobile games and gets special bonuses for

Lindsay Poss:

watching ads, and has never spent a single dollar on an

Lindsay Poss:

actual mobile game. So this is exactly up my alley. I know

Lindsay Poss:

boost is known for having like a lot of low income customers. So

Lindsay Poss:

I think it's pretty cool that they're offering this program as

Lindsay Poss:

a way to lower as Bill reminds me of a lot of things electric

Lindsay Poss:

companies did with like, earn, there's like days you can earn

Lindsay Poss:

credits back to so the way of doing it.

Jimmy Baratta:

They're making advertising fun. It's also

Paul Dawalibi:

making advertising fun.

Jimmy Baratta:

I mean, you're playing, you're playing and by

Jimmy Baratta:

getting pitch to at the same time, I think it's brilliant. I

Jimmy Baratta:

think it'll be wildly successful. And I think you can

Jimmy Baratta:

expect to see this type of interactive ad model akin to

Jimmy Baratta:

streaming apps where before with Hulu, you know, you can choose

Jimmy Baratta:

the left or the right commercial depending on your preference. Me

Jimmy Baratta:

I think they're gonna take it. I think it goes there next,

Jimmy Baratta:

honestly, this technology, but I think it's I think we're all in

Jimmy Baratta:

agreement that it's pretty great.

Paul Dawalibi:

Olivia says who BOE You guys rock. Olivia, you

Paul Dawalibi:

rock. Thank you for saying that. My very quick take on this good

Paul Dawalibi:

product market fit, Boost Mobile discount carrier, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

Arguably lower income users saving any kind of money. If

Paul Dawalibi:

there's probably a good time versus dollars equation for

Paul Dawalibi:

that, that crowd that's on boost mobile. So I like this for them.

Paul Dawalibi:

Alright, let's, let's move on here. Let's switch to the next

Paul Dawalibi:

story here, guys. Next story is about Saudi Arabia. We have

Paul Dawalibi:

Saudi Arabia in the news, then tendo. So the headline here is

Paul Dawalibi:

Nintendo's the latest target of Saudi Arabia's gaming investment

Paul Dawalibi:

countries investment fund buys, buys 5% stake for nearly $3

Paul Dawalibi:

billion. So this was made by the public investment fund. This is

Paul Dawalibi:

the same fund that acquired stakes in Capcom next on that

Paul Dawalibi:

bought ESL that like this is all the same money, essentially,

Paul Dawalibi:

Saudi money. You know, government money essentially

Paul Dawalibi:

going to buy gaming companies 2.9 8 billion is the size of the

Paul Dawalibi:

investment in Nintendo 5.01% ownership. We've spent so much

Paul Dawalibi:

time talking about Nintendo guys. Jimmy, what do you think

Paul Dawalibi:

about Saudi Arabia buying a very sizable portion of Nintendo

Paul Dawalibi:

here? And what do you think they'll do with it?

Jimmy Baratta:

I think what they'll do with it is the harder

Jimmy Baratta:

part to answer. This is awesome. I mean, we this region is

Jimmy Baratta:

absolutely killing it in everything that they do. They're

Jimmy Baratta:

not just snatching up companies that make sense and companies

Jimmy Baratta:

that can collaborate, collaborate or work together.

Jimmy Baratta:

But now they're I mean, part of one of the biggest and oldest

Jimmy Baratta:

players in all of gaming history. What do they do with

Jimmy Baratta:

5%? Hopefully they bring a Nintendo into to Dubai, or Saudi

Jimmy Baratta:

Arabia to the general. Yeah, I mean, that would be that would

Jimmy Baratta:

be I think, the first step. I think it's about crossing over

Jimmy Baratta:

these cultures and kind of bringing these influences and

Jimmy Baratta:

sharing in that prompt.

Lindsay Poss:

Lindsay Don't love this. It's, it's okay. It's a

Lindsay Poss:

solid investment in the space of the legacy company, which is

Lindsay Poss:

great. But Nintendo is famously risk averse. The sports scene is

Lindsay Poss:

famously dry, I don't think you can do or affect much change

Lindsay Poss:

with 5%. And it just doesn't scream like a lot of the other

Lindsay Poss:

investments that that the or that Saudi Arabia has made has

Lindsay Poss:

been very visionary, very forward thinking. This does this

Lindsay Poss:

will be like a stable long term kind of investment, but it's not

Lindsay Poss:

necessarily exciting. And in line, I think with a lot of the

Lindsay Poss:

other things that they're doing. Jeff?

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, I agree with Lindsey. I mean, this is

Jeff Cohen:

probably purely a financial trade. Given 5% You know, you're

Jeff Cohen:

not going to affect change. You really aren't. You have no

Jeff Cohen:

operational rights at that point. You know, maybe you get

Jeff Cohen:

some management meetings and, and whatnot. But yes, it's

Jeff Cohen:

purely financial. I'm just waiting for the headline when

Jeff Cohen:

Saudi Arabia invest in holodeck media, you know, 5% for a 3

Jeff Cohen:

billion

Paul Dawalibi:

alien, what do you do? Olivia says, Why would

Paul Dawalibi:

Saudi esports want anything to do with one of the least esports

Paul Dawalibi:

driven gaming companies? Um, I mean, one thought is maybe they

Paul Dawalibi:

they can muscle some esports out of Nintendo, right? Like they

Paul Dawalibi:

have ESL, maybe we see more Smash, you know, tournaments in

Paul Dawalibi:

Saudi Arabia, maybe we see more esports out of Nintendo as a

Paul Dawalibi:

consequence of, of them having some muscle there and owning ESL

Paul Dawalibi:

at the same time. I will say the reason I really like this is

Paul Dawalibi:

again, called product market fit. Saudi Arabia, one of the

Paul Dawalibi:

youngest from a demographics perspective, countries in the

Paul Dawalibi:

world, extremely young population, Nintendo's as we've

Paul Dawalibi:

all said before, sort of the perfect product for that younger

Paul Dawalibi:

demographic. And, and I think what I'll be interested to see

Paul Dawalibi:

is what do they get out of Nintendo? What do they make

Paul Dawalibi:

Nintendo do? What favours do they get from Nintendo as a

Paul Dawalibi:

consequence of this so that that's what I'm looking out for?

Paul Dawalibi:

Sorry, Olivia, if that answers your question. All right. Let's,

Paul Dawalibi:

let's move on here guys. Let's get to our next story. Oh, yeah,

Paul Dawalibi:

this one's a good one. This one's a good one. Talking about

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, we usually do chair reviews. I've got to sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

cheer related stories here for the lightning round, much to

Paul Dawalibi:

Jeff's dismay here. But this one good game, Fairmont, Singapore

Paul Dawalibi:

and Razer introduced luxury gaming suites. Three of Fairmont

Paul Dawalibi:

Singapore Suites have been revamped into distinctive gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

rooms with equipment and gaming furniture from razor. So this is

Paul Dawalibi:

the razor gamer and streamer suite that you see if you're

Paul Dawalibi:

watching this. You're listening to this after the fact sorry,

Paul Dawalibi:

you need to come to the live stream but the razor gamer and

Paul Dawalibi:

streamer suite, one of three gaming experiences curated by

Paul Dawalibi:

Fairmont Singapore and Razer, you can see this photo, lot of

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming setups in that room. It's, you know, a collaboration

Paul Dawalibi:

between Fairmont and Razer, and their goal it says is to combine

Paul Dawalibi:

the sensational world of gaming with luxury hospitality. It's

Paul Dawalibi:

specifically designed with gamers in mind their sandwiches,

Paul Dawalibi:

miniature miniature charcuterie and cheese plates that guests

Paul Dawalibi:

can feast upon. And the suites can be booked for two or four

Paul Dawalibi:

hour blocks. And it comes with discounts for overnight stays at

Paul Dawalibi:

the Fairmont, etc. So luxury gaming suites. Guys, there's

Paul Dawalibi:

more pictures here. Sort of like your private land party, I guess

Paul Dawalibi:

her private land Cafe is how I best describe this. Jeff, what

Paul Dawalibi:

do you think?

Jeff Cohen:

So? I don't I mean, you brought up the term product

Jeff Cohen:

market fit on the on the last one, I think, I think it has to

Jeff Cohen:

be talked about here because I just don't see this as a product

Jeff Cohen:

market fit. I mean, you're talking about a luxury suite,

Jeff Cohen:

very private experience with the lands that are the typical lands

Jeff Cohen:

that our customers, you know, 14 to 24 years old and like their

Jeff Cohen:

this is just just isn't their market. Now, maybe in Singapore

Jeff Cohen:

that is different. I could that could be me just being

Jeff Cohen:

culturally unaware. But I just don't see that I don't I don't

Jeff Cohen:

see the lands that are marketed as a luxury market. I see it as

Jeff Cohen:

as like I actually lower the butchery market

Lindsay Poss:

this looks sick and razors products look super

Lindsay Poss:

cool. But that being said, I'm actually with Jeff on this one

Lindsay Poss:

for once in my life. Yeah, I don't know. This isn't I don't

Lindsay Poss:

necessarily, I think just totally right. Like I don't know

Lindsay Poss:

the Singapore market either. This seems to be a lot of spaces

Lindsay Poss:

really crowded together. So you have to rent a large party. I

Lindsay Poss:

think like having having some outfitted gamer pods but it

Lindsay Poss:

actually made a lot more sense here. people to be able to come

Lindsay Poss:

in and stay in a luxury place and then game over owners stream

Lindsay Poss:

on their own. Having like a bunch of desks crammed together

Lindsay Poss:

doesn't Screen streaming sweet to me very well, unless you're

Lindsay Poss:

doing some 15 things. So I'm not exactly sure that I get it but

Lindsay Poss:

it looks cool.

Paul Dawalibi:

To me, they had your charcuterie, right.

Jimmy Baratta:

I think you guys are totally wrong, you know, you

Jimmy Baratta:

can go into like the hardwood suites in Vegas, and they have

Jimmy Baratta:

like in in hotel basketball courts or going to other suites

Jimmy Baratta:

where they have like a top golf within the not like the mega

Jimmy Baratta:

ones, but they have those digital golf driving ranges.

Jimmy Baratta:

Hotels are always looking for cool, unique things that aren't

Jimmy Baratta:

just bars and restaurants to attract their guests. And my

Jimmy Baratta:

bachelor party that was one thing that we looked at for a

Jimmy Baratta:

hotel was like, What can we do at the hotel that's fun. They

Jimmy Baratta:

had full bowl, or other pool tables and in shuffle ball and

Jimmy Baratta:

other kinds of things. So to have a land center, I think is

Jimmy Baratta:

awesome. I totally ruined my bachelor party by not going

Jimmy Baratta:

there. Jeff makes a great point that the Fairmont meet, or maybe

Jimmy Baratta:

this does better in you know, like in a Marriott or an Embassy

Jimmy Baratta:

Suites or a different type of hotel. I think if it's at the

Jimmy Baratta:

Fairmont it's going to be very nice. I'm not concerned with it

Jimmy Baratta:

being cramped. And like Paul said, they have charcuterie. So

Jimmy Baratta:

what more can you ask for?

Paul Dawalibi:

Let me just says it's exactly what you think it

Paul Dawalibi:

would look like at audio listeners. Yeah. It's a good

Paul Dawalibi:

Olivia. Totally agree. It's what you think it would look like.

Paul Dawalibi:

Guys, I mean, what's wrong with going after a different segment

Paul Dawalibi:

of the market? I'm not saying every high end hotel in the

Paul Dawalibi:

world needs a gaming suite. But I think as an experience, there

Paul Dawalibi:

is some there is there is a market I think for high end

Paul Dawalibi:

social gaming experiences. That is not necessarily filled today.

Paul Dawalibi:

And I mean, high end like Fairmont level high end. It's a

Paul Dawalibi:

small market. I think it's a niche market. But there's

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely a market for it. Now. Is this the best execution? I

Paul Dawalibi:

that? I don't know. I'd have to go see it to actually make that

Paul Dawalibi:

determination. All right. Let's second chair story here guys are

Paul Dawalibi:

chair ish story. I'll do them back to back here. Thermal takes

Paul Dawalibi:

new gaming chair is giving us a peek, Porsche marketing. The sub

Paul Dawalibi:

headlines seriously hurt you. So the company's put out a lot of

Paul Dawalibi:

images around their new gaming chair. And it's it's designed by

Paul Dawalibi:

it's a collaboration with studio FA Porsche, which I think is

Paul Dawalibi:

separate from Porsche Design, but I'm not sure. And the

Paul Dawalibi:

project is called bearing witness to a new dawn. And the

Paul Dawalibi:

idea is they're promoting their new gaming chair by exhibiting

Paul Dawalibi:

the work of artists, musicians and athletes, whose master

Paul Dawalibi:

craftsmanship, cross discipline, disciplinary creation, and

Paul Dawalibi:

stable spiritual power echoes the spirit that Thermaltake

Paul Dawalibi:

wants to convey. So again, hard to convey what what's in these

Paul Dawalibi:

images. But there's no gaming actually happening in any of

Paul Dawalibi:

them. And the Porsche gaming chairs going to be about $1,300.

Paul Dawalibi:

So in Herman Miller kind of range. It's going to come in

Paul Dawalibi:

multiple colors for the armrests, real leather

Paul Dawalibi:

upholstery. You can see the white one here. It is a cool

Paul Dawalibi:

sleek design, but the ads are weird. Jimmy, your thoughts?

Jimmy Baratta:

I I'm a fan of this. I'll start off by that I

Jimmy Baratta:

am so sick of the existing chair companies that we know and

Jimmy Baratta:

review just throwing a different logo and a different color way

Jimmy Baratta:

on their existing chair model. It's boring. It's been done, we

Jimmy Baratta:

get it. This is a unique chair. It looks different. It's

Jimmy Baratta:

completely redesigned. I hope it's comfortable. That's why I

Jimmy Baratta:

can't give it my full support. But as Paul knows, I've been

Jimmy Baratta:

shopping for a Porsche for like two months now. So anything that

Jimmy Baratta:

they're doing, I'm clearly a fan of I'm just happy that it's not

Jimmy Baratta:

a generic Porsche logo on an existing chair brand that we've

Jimmy Baratta:

seen in 50 different colorways so for that on that

Lindsay Poss:

onesie. I think if Mercedes had done I would

Lindsay Poss:

probably be better. No, I'm just kidding.

Jeff Cohen:

I assume that's an f1. Joe went over my head. I got

Jeff Cohen:

nothing. I mean, I didn't be weird. Seems offensive. I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know. I think Olivia's comment is is right here. It's exactly

Jeff Cohen:

what you think it looks like for the audio listeners. And then I

Jeff Cohen:

like the sub headline it said seriously, who

Paul Dawalibi:

aren't you? The ads are terrible, unfortunately.

Paul Dawalibi:

And portions are generally very good. It's not Porsche the

Paul Dawalibi:

automotive companies like the design firm but seems a little

Paul Dawalibi:

uninspired. Like I find it interesting to sit in, you know

Paul Dawalibi:

the same bucket seats that are in a GT three or something even

Paul Dawalibi:

though I don't think that makes for a comfortable gaming chair

Paul Dawalibi:

at all. But as a piece of furniture art may be more

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting. This this I didn't find that interesting. All

Paul Dawalibi:

right, let's move on guys. Can we talk about I want to do want

Paul Dawalibi:

to do two stories in one year, so you gotta you gotta gotta get

Paul Dawalibi:

both of your comments in. Actually, I'll do them back to

Paul Dawalibi:

back. All right, let's do them back to the headline here,

Paul Dawalibi:

Google Store removes dedicated gaming tab, effectively burying

Paul Dawalibi:

stadia to highlight pixel buds. So this was while Google IO was

Paul Dawalibi:

happening, the Google Store removed its dedicated gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

tab. So you can't see any kind of you can't sign up for stadia

Paul Dawalibi:

or anything like from the homescreen. And it's been

Paul Dawalibi:

replaced with a new ear buds category. So instead of the

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming category, which where you could buy this stadia

Paul Dawalibi:

controller, etc. It's now an ear buds category. Jeff, start with

Paul Dawalibi:

you. What does this mean for stadia sure is are they reading

Paul Dawalibi:

too much into this?

Jeff Cohen:

Well, I mean, I bet the earbuds are gonna sell

Jeff Cohen:

better than stadia. That's for sure. I mean, air pods is bigger

Jeff Cohen:

than, than a lot of consumer brands. I just remember I was I

Jeff Cohen:

was laughing to myself, because I was thinking back to PAX East

Jeff Cohen:

where the guy told you that your prediction that stadia was going

Jeff Cohen:

to die was wrong, because technically it wasn't dead. It

Jeff Cohen:

was pretty, pretty hilarious. He himself had also I think,

Jeff Cohen:

predicted that stadia was gonna die. And he said, No, Paul, we

Jeff Cohen:

we were wrong. It's not dead. thought was just hilarious.

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, technically not dead.

Lindsay Poss:

Lindsey? Yeah. I mean, I think that this does

Lindsay Poss:

make sense for Google. I think the pixel buds are a better

Lindsay Poss:

product. So why not put that forward?

Jimmy Baratta:

Jimmy stadium is just such an embarrassment. I

Jimmy Baratta:

hate talking about it. And honestly, so I'm glad that they

Jimmy Baratta:

finally acknowledged that shamefully, I have a friend I

Jimmy Baratta:

think that just like ordered a stadia. And I like yelled at him

Jimmy Baratta:

in our group chat for a good five minutes. Like why didn't

Jimmy Baratta:

you was this free? I don't, I just went off, and I was like,

Jimmy Baratta:

You need to ask me before you do stupid things.

Jeff Cohen:

For science, like research?

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, look, the question I have, and it's more

Paul Dawalibi:

of a question in the comment. Is this Google burying? Its gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

ambition altogether, right, like by taking the gaming tab off the

Paul Dawalibi:

home? Off the homepage? Is this them effectively saying we're

Paul Dawalibi:

done with gaming? We're out of gaming? Right. That's it. We

Paul Dawalibi:

admit defeat? You know, we did we did we messed up. You didn't

Paul Dawalibi:

use all your time. Go ahead.

Lindsay Poss:

Well, to be fair, I think it's more so an

Lindsay Poss:

excitement towards the pixel buds, which have been they've

Lindsay Poss:

been they've it's been a product that Google's been working on

Lindsay Poss:

for a long time. And they're quite a good product. And so I

Lindsay Poss:

don't know that it's necessarily against gaming so much as why

Lindsay Poss:

not put the product forth that you believe in more right now.

Lindsay Poss:

But they might turn something around and do more research for

Lindsay Poss:

stadia to who knows.

Paul Dawalibi:

Alright guys, let's get to our last story

Paul Dawalibi:

here. We're going to finish on this one. It's a it's a

Paul Dawalibi:

fascinating one here. This is from Carnegie Mellon, in fact,

Paul Dawalibi:

and the the headline here VR is next gaming step may let you

Paul Dawalibi:

feel spiders crawling in your mouth. subheadline, a group of

Paul Dawalibi:

researchers at Carnegie Mellon have created the next big thing

Paul Dawalibi:

in VR gaming, mouth based haptics with spiders. So a group

Paul Dawalibi:

of researchers that says they create a new way to deliver

Paul Dawalibi:

haptic feedback to players mouths. The effect is achieved

Paul Dawalibi:

by affixing a large board covered in ultrasonic

Paul Dawalibi:

transducers to the bottom of an Oculus quest position so that it

Paul Dawalibi:

points directly at the user's mouth. The transducers admits

Paul Dawalibi:

ultrasonic energy, creating a variety of sensations on the

Paul Dawalibi:

lips and teeth. You guys can if you're watching, you can see it

Paul Dawalibi:

here like these is ultrasonic. It's ultrasound array, or

Paul Dawalibi:

ultrasonic transducers sitting right below the the Oculus is a

Paul Dawalibi:

headset piece. So you can you can create it says in one

Paul Dawalibi:

simulation, a user takes puffs from a cigarette and another

Paul Dawalibi:

wind flies across the user's face. Or like having spiders in

Paul Dawalibi:

your mouth is one of the scary ways they mentioned. So it's not

Paul Dawalibi:

obviously not consumer ready. But it is very cool. And I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

curious what you think of this, Jeff.

Jeff Cohen:

I mean, the spiders thing is just horrible. In my

Jeff Cohen:

first take is like, at first I was gonna say what's the use

Jeff Cohen:

case because we're just talking about putting spider think

Jeff Cohen:

spiders to people's mouth. But, you know, as as we sort of read

Jeff Cohen:

through the rest of the article. I mean, this kind of technology

Jeff Cohen:

is going to need a place to really have the full immersion

Jeff Cohen:

of the metaverse. So, you know, I think there's some value here.

Jeff Cohen:

If you can have people really feeling wind on their face or

Jeff Cohen:

the fact they're eating like these are variances that you're

Jeff Cohen:

going to need an immersive metaverse. Kudos. Lindsey?

Lindsay Poss:

Yeah, this is my this is my alma mater. I saw a

Lindsay Poss:

lot of super cool stuff at the Human Computer Interaction

Lindsay Poss:

Institute. I did a lot of the studies myself when Oculus is in

Lindsay Poss:

its early days in 2012 2013, a lot of motion based stuff. I'm

Lindsay Poss:

always super excited to see what, what everyone's working on

Lindsay Poss:

over there. I think it's awesome. I think Carnegie

Lindsay Poss:

Mellon's still at the forefront of all the cool stuff that's

Lindsay Poss:

happening in tech, and I love it.

Jimmy Baratta:

Jimmy, I don't think all innovation is good

Jimmy Baratta:

innovation. In my face, I'll go outside. I never ever want to

Jimmy Baratta:

feel what even simulated what even a simulation thinks it

Jimmy Baratta:

feels like to have a spider in my mouth. I do think in the chat

Jimmy Baratta:

comments that Chris makes funny connection. And that's probably

Paul Dawalibi:

Chris says, there's an industry for this and

Paul Dawalibi:

it ain't gaming. Chris, I gotta give you one of these. Yes,

Paul Dawalibi:

there is an industry for this. And it some form of gaming, I

Paul Dawalibi:

guess, when she more more accurately pointed out. This

Paul Dawalibi:

feels like the adult industry is going to love this really

Paul Dawalibi:

enjoyed watching the slide, by the way, much better than just

Paul Dawalibi:

the audio on the podcast. And apologies for the vast number of

Paul Dawalibi:

comments worth staying up late for Wednesday. Thank you.

Paul Dawalibi:

Number. Yeah, no.

Jeff Cohen:

It's great. Oh, you love the comments. It's so much

Jeff Cohen:

better when this comment,

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, but let me just get back to this thing.

Paul Dawalibi:

I've been saying this forever, to get to that holodeck future,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? The future where this we're virtual worlds are

Paul Dawalibi:

completely indistinguishable from the real world where it all

Paul Dawalibi:

of our senses are, are satisfied. We need technology

Paul Dawalibi:

like this. And what I've been telling people is we're closer

Paul Dawalibi:

than we think this is not so far away. People are going to solve

Paul Dawalibi:

these problems. And we're starting to see it. I mean,

Paul Dawalibi:

look, I can't believe that this allows you to feel stuff in your

Paul Dawalibi:

mouth. So cool. Chris says when you're awesome, Chris, you're

Paul Dawalibi:

awesome. When's awesome. Everyone here who commented.

Paul Dawalibi:

Olivia, and Antonio and Alonso and Matt and all of you guys,

Paul Dawalibi:

Johan. All of you guys, if you're still here, Adam. Han.

Paul Dawalibi:

Thank you all for coming. We love doing this because of you

Paul Dawalibi:

guys. Because of the comments because of the participation. It

Paul Dawalibi:

makes it so much fun. I will say definitely tune in for the

Paul Dawalibi:

podcast this week. It's going to be a lot of fun. Go subscribe to

Paul Dawalibi:

MIT a business and met a woman or two sister podcast. They're

Paul Dawalibi:

incredibly I'm so proud of those two shows. I think we put out

Paul Dawalibi:

amazing content every week, and go follow business of esports on

Paul Dawalibi:

all our socials. So either business of esports or busy

Paul Dawalibi:

sports everywhere on YouTube on Instagram, on tick tock on

Paul Dawalibi:

LinkedIn on I don't even know on every single platform you could

Paul Dawalibi:

possibly imagine Twitter. We are going to be running a giveaway

Paul Dawalibi:

also this week. So stay tuned for that. If you follow us on

Paul Dawalibi:

the socials, you guys can enter the giveaway. It's in

Paul Dawalibi:

partnership with the Sentinels that esports. Org who were on

Paul Dawalibi:

the podcast a couple of weeks ago. So definitely tune in for

Paul Dawalibi:

that or join and follow to be a part of that. Olivia says, Hey,

Paul Dawalibi:

Lindsay, I'm loving your podcast. You keep getting better

Paul Dawalibi:

and better every week. I couldn't agree more. Olivia.

Paul Dawalibi:

She's killing it with the show. And Johann says great show guys,

Paul Dawalibi:

y'all and thank you so much. Don't forget guys. Please always

Paul Dawalibi:

remember the most important thing to remember. The future is

Paul Dawalibi:

fun, guys. We'll see you next week.

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